Enlighten me

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by Jinx-), Aug 28, 2013.

  1. Jinx-)

    Jinx-) Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    693
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    At my latest job which only lasted 2.5 days, because I was keeping high tolerances and was taking time to inspect parts so I didn't meet their "expectations" to slow or whatever they say after 2 days working, basically they screwed me over. They hired me as cnc machinist/programmer and put me on manual mills where I had to make some parts for Rem 700 action, can anyone tell what exactly this supposed to do? And the drawing is terrible specially guessing start of radius or center of radius....
    [​IMG]

    O yeah the part is .800 thick but the stock they provided was 1.5" and it was cut .5" over in length and its 1147 hot rolled steel and they forbid me from using cutting oil and mill has no coolant system .... the good thing after what happened today, I got single malt in my glass to forget them f...rs ;-) but a rent a place 100's miles from my house so I don't have to commute, damn they really screw me specially when I had to sign leasing agreement...
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,311
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004

    Damnifiknow !!!!

    Looks like a test to check your machining ability or some type of fixture.

    J E CUSTOM
     

  3. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,072
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    drawing is interesting, but also done wrong for a manual machine. But still usable (just harder). I see the critical pin hole, but the way they went about it is backwards.

    Reaming a 3/16" hole plus three tenths minus none on a manual machine is just insane! And I might add not fun on a CNC machine! Perhaps a SIP or something like that! You got that much run out in the tool holders! And the bearing pack in the spindle is probably more than that by itself (most use ABEC Five bearing sets, and you double the error). Yes it can be done, but not one part after another! That's jig grinder work five days a week. Plus the way the drawing was done allows the locations to seriously stack up.

    * here's how I would have done it. Got a piece of gauge stock that was about 3/4" thick. Had the pin holes put in it and ground. Then I'd have the pin holes in the plates done on a separate operation. Use the plate to locate the part to pin hole locations with gauge pins. Then cut the rest of the part.

    * this reminds me of a valve body that was used on the M1 tank. It had seven holes that were about six inches deep. Four of the holes had four steps in them that went all the way down to 10mm. Easy? Well first you had to hold a single digit micro. The error was four tenths, plus a total of four tenths compound error and concentricity too!!!! This was off a TACOM drawing, and was totally insane. After fighting it for 18 months a salesman offered to do a reamer for these four holes on his dime! We thought he was insane, but had no money in the reamer except time. The reamer showed up about six weeks later, and it was like nothing we'd ever seen before. He instructed the operators on how to use it, and we never looked back. After a one week trial we found that his run out was solidly in the two tenths range and the micro was outstanding. We bought twelve of them at $4200 a piece. It took roughly six and a half hours to cut one valve body, and another four to check it out per TACOM's specs. I built an air gauge to check the part in about a half hour, so we actually got one part per eight hour shift. I ordered in a dozen or so of brand new Ericson tool holders that were a little undersize in the bore. Had the bores ground dead strait and with as little run out as possible, and this eliminated having to indicate the reamer to the spindle everytime we inserted it. (saved about a half hour).
    gary
     
  4. Jinx-)

    Jinx-) Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    693
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Only if knew what alcohol does to me I wouldn't post this o well...:D


    I don't get why they cut the stock for me, I could of square whole bar at once to width and thickness instead I had to do every single piece they gave me and I held it to +- .001 when print called for +-.005 and it wasn't untill later later I found out what material I was working on and cutting speeds had to be lower then what I originally thought. I'm not sure what cutting speeds should be used on mild steel without any coolant. So I was taking my time trying to hold them tolerances... The print had 6 different parts all labelled for Remington arms and I think this was labelled bolt catcher but it could be trigger guard.
    Also take a closer look at bottom 2 holes which had to be counterbored to 3/8 doing so will take out the bottom edge. I think it has to do with squirt bottle I had to buy to spray coolant someone had to drink to much of it to make this print. And this is the first place which asked me to use my own drill bit set and my drill chuck...
     
  5. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,113
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Watch that Gary. My wife retired from TACOM, home of absurd tolerances and lowest cost per part bidding......:)

    if you only knew and I could tell. I can't.

    I'm Seargent Schultz..... "I know nottthing"....
     
  6. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,072
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    TACOM itself isn't all that bad, but they have about a million little "micro kingdoms" that dwell inside it. Their process inspectors are a triple joke! Rarely do they have the needed back ground to do the job, and the only thing they go by is what some clerk wrote up.

    Here's a fine example (you tax payers are gonna love this!!) I'm doing something that may get the knock on the door, but who cares at this stage of the game. I worked on the M1 Abrams project for almost 15 years. The initial design of the transmission would not work (it was actually a TACOM design). We knew this before we cut the first chip on the prototypes (17 of them), but they insisted and we needed the work. Once they were done and after about two weeks on the dyno they went into a redesign mode. This time I think we built a dozen or so at close to a million dollars a piece! We told them it wasn't going to be much better, and if it stayed together it wouldn't shift gears right. Build them or loose the contract was their train of thought!! After about two or three more weeks they're back at the redesign game! This time we are to make another dozen in the tool room. We said to hold it as this one is no better than the last one. They had us go ahead and built six anyway (about a million dollars a pop). Of course they went south real quick. Then Tacom asked us if we could make it work? So they contracted us to redesign several units inside the casting plus some other things I won't talk about. The Dragon Lady wasn't slightly impressed, but whoever she reported to said build some. Seems like we were contracted to build about 17 again, and we actually built about twenty (the three were kept in house as masters to gauge off of). Of course they worked, but then Tacom made some changes inside the back of the tank. So we had to make some more minor revisions. While this was going on the Dragon Lady stepped on somebody's toes that knew his business extremely well. He applies for patents on all the hydrostatic drives as they were completely different than Tacom's, and gets them.

    But it gets even better! In 1983 the price of an X1000 transmission was about $447,000 with a production rate of about 25 or 30 a month. Later they ramped up production to 90 units a month at about $150,000 a unit. Then right before going into Iraq they retooled for a 150 unit output per month. (remember this is a very low volume operation). Tacom sets the production rate per month, and will not allow you much of a cushion. But will fine the hell out of you for a late delivery. Later production slows way down and cost rise thru the ceiling. We offered to simply run a hundred fifty of them over a six week time period, and store them. This way they'd come in for well under half the cost. Nope! But we did get them to allow us to manufacture the X200 and later the XTG-411G on these machines. This seriously aided in getting the cost down and the labor and machine time was spread out a lot better. (machine time is the real killer here). While all this was going on Tacom asked us to design a power pack for several SPG projects they had in mind. Probably a hundred million dollar project that never went anywhere thanks to Congress. Then Tacom and the Marines ask us to help them develop a completely knew tracked assault vehicle for the Marines. They tests worked out very well with nothing too serious other than moving some bolt holes. Tacom plans on building the transmission in house, but somebody messed up (again?) The transmission is huge, and will not fit on the machines they planned on using! Another hundred fifty million dollar retool! (do we see a pattern yet?) Get all these new machines set (big expensive stuff), and Obama cancels the project!
    While all this is going on we start getting in a few flatbed truck loads of bad X1100 gear boxes. We take them apart and go thru a part to part measuring process. Somebody sounds an alarm, and everything comes to a halt. They are out there checking equipment all over the place as the numbers to get are way out of spec. Even the material used. Then the guy that designed the hydrostats is called in, and he said we didn't build this stuff! Was made in Alabama under contract from the GAO!!! Law suits fly over the patented stuff, and we win big time. Turns out that the GAO decided to make all the spare parts at their buddy's job shops. They couldn't make the parts so the GAO (on their own without permission from TACOM) opened up the specs we used everyday. We load all the disassembled parts in crates and send them home, with a you fix it note. probably a $20,000,000 boondoggle there alone.

    and some folks worry about a $100 dollar toilet seat!
    gary
     
  7. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,113
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Gary...

    My wife spent a lot of time at GD in Lima.
     
  8. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,072
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Joe promised me a ride on that tank and never came thru! Good thing anyway as it was 28 degrees that Febuary morning!
    gary
     
  9. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,113
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    I'll play Sargent Schultz again...... I know notttttthing.

    My wife specialized in Fire suppression especially First Article tests. I'll let you add narrative as you see fit.....

    Amazing what a shaped charge will do inside an Abrahams when it ignites a non hardened fuel cell.

    Rabbits are expendable.... I like mine well done but not seasoned with fuel.
     
  10. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,072
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    there's a film clip out there that shows an M1 turret mounted on a stand alone fixture, and being shot with a 5" naval gun using APC in a side shot. The folks pointed out how well the turret held together without penetrating the inside. (newer M1a1 and M1a2's are even better) But it also was rather obvious that they never realized the "jello factor!" No one inside there would have survived the concussion! The burn your referring to was probably the case less ammo. One round out of the blast container is all it takes to cremate an entire crew. There's a new main gun design that completely eliminates this issue, but seems to be stalled out.
    gary
     
  11. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,113
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Lets just say I understand they are a bit soft on the lower sides. You already know what the government uses for suppression and probably the optic trigger as well. As I understand it, full suppression is within 1/100th of a second (per TACOM specification). Problem is, the hardware survives, the occupants don't.

    Was nice of the government to declare the suppression substance a controlled commodity, remove it from general use as a suppression agent and then adopt it as the ultimate suppression agent (which it is).

    Not familiar with the turret, only the systems my wife had control and sign off over and even that is very vague. You don't get security clearances by having diarrhea of the mouth.

    There are things I don't want to know and I'll never ask anyway. Sometime, ask me about the M14 Cartridge magazine fiasco (thats unclassified).

    Asd usual, we hyave taken this thread completely off topic....