effeciency in 14" of barrel

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by biff's reloading, Jan 6, 2008.

  1. biff's reloading

    biff's reloading Well-Known Member

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    for deer hunting, what cartridge would give the most effecient use of a barrel roughly 14 inches long? the best impact power, the longest range, and the least muzzle blast? something like a 7mm08? 308? 35rem? i need something that is easily found on the shelf at the local store or walmart, is cheap, is chambered in a cheap used rifle like the savage 110 or other, and recoil wouldnt be an issue.

    this is kind of a pet project im thinking about, and thought maybe some of you could shed some light on the right cartridge to use. it will have a short barrel because the next 14" will be for silencing the blast. it isnt for poaching or any other illegal use, just for fun shooting and maybe a little hearing savings over the long run. mostly just an interesting el cheapo project. something different. and not noticable. just a regular looking gun that is somehow quiet:)

    its not particularly for long range use, but if it shoots well when im done, maybe 300 yard shots on paper or critters up to deer would be possible. the sonic crack wont be an issue, and if i want silent shots, i would use a reduced load with something like 2400 or 4756.

    so, what cartridge should it be? ill post pics when i get it done.
     
  2. Stormrider

    Stormrider Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any answers for your cartridge question, but I do have a question. I'm wondering, how you are going to do that and not run afoul of the BATFE?
     

  3. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    yopu can own a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" but you have to have it registered as a "short barreled rifle" with the ATF.

    If you looking for a rifle that the barrel is gonna be 28" with the silencer then I suggest you get a better silencer !! Even a half way jimmy rigged silencer shoudlen't have to be over 10" for a 308 size round. more along the lines of 6-8
    Are you planning to buy yout silencer or make it? you can file a form 1 with the BATF and once its cleared you can make your own silencer for the cost or the $200 regestration tax ,I have built several and I tell ya its nice to be able to shoot highpower rifles with little to no hearing protection.
    If you gun is supposed to be "movie" quiet then the bullet can not break the speed of sound , so generaly sub sonic load are loaded to about 1000 fps and this is going to DRAMATICALY shorten you range. to maybe 100yds with a 30 cal bullet most likly 50-75yds and the trajectory is gonn be like throwing a cinder block. I don't care if you silencer is 3 feet long and 6" in diameter made with 50 K-baffels , when the bullet comes out if its going 1100 fps its gonna make a loud crack.

    But as for effeciency of the round , the bigger the bullet hole is and the less powder you have the more effecient the round will be , for instance with a coupld of my AR's one is a 16" 223 and another is a 14.5" 6mm-223 both shoot 55gr bullet realy well but the 6mm-223 will run them out faster even though the barrel is shorter , because its more effecient and differant powder is use to maximize the powder to bore ratio. I shot a 308 pistol chambered in 308 and its pretty effecient with the loads I have worked up for it , not so much with over the counter ammo. But I would say for off the shelf ammo the 308 would be good till you get to the big bores like the 45-70 and 444 Marlin and such.

    what is it your wanting this gun to do , just be quieter so its more enjoyable or as close to silent as possible?
     
  4. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Biff

    I would recomend the 7/08 because it works well with
    short barrels.

    Speaking of short barrels. I would also go with a 16" and 1/4"
    barrel to avoid any problems with the ATF.

    I have built quite a few 7/08s with 20" barrels and they exceed
    3000ft/sec with 120gr bullets,Also I have a 16.250" 7/08 XP
    pistol that shoots a 150gr bullet at just over 2600ft/sec
    and have killed dear at just under 500yrds.

    All cases based on the 308 (243,260,708 and 308) do well with shorter
    barrels 20" and down.

    Just my thoughs
    J E CUSTOM
     
  5. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    A 14" 7-08 will push a 140 bullet right around 2540 fps-that was my accurate load anyway with H-4895.
    Mine was in a center-grip XP-100 though.
     
  6. biff's reloading

    biff's reloading Well-Known Member

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    im not worried about the legalities, just wanna make a fun gun to shoot. to look at it, you would never know it was baffled. maybe i will go the legal route later, if it works as planned. and its not going to be for any super stealth missions, just a baffled gun to go easy on my ears. i havent built it yet, so i dont expect any atf agents knockin my door down. i would hope they have better things to do with their time :)

    i was actually thinking of using the 35 whelen at first. so if i wanted to be legal, all i have to do is pay the 200 bucks?
    how about the 338 federal? you think a 6-8" silencer thats only 7/8" OD would be able to absorb the blast of a 308 sized case?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  7. Stormrider

    Stormrider Well-Known Member

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    $200 for the suppressor and $200 for the short barrel rifle. They will knock your door down if you build it and are reported. That's what they get paid to do.
     
  8. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Nobodys going to come kick your door down if your reported for building out of spec guns , yea their are gonna show up and yea it probably won't be to pleasant having all your stuff gone through but keep it legal and ALWAYS copperate if their is any question.

    It if your state doesn't have any sanctions on short barreled rifles or silencers , they are perfectly legal to own and the silencers are legal to build AFTER , you have filed and recieved comfermation of the proper paperwork. I'm pretty sure that you have to have a class 3 FFL to built a sub 16" barreled rifle though

    Your best bet would be to get in touch with a class 3 dealer in your area and explain what it is that your wanting to do and he will know all the ins and out and can be a huge helpmwith the proper paperwork
     
  9. biff's reloading

    biff's reloading Well-Known Member

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    legalities aside, if you had a gun with a 16" barrel, and wanted to chamber it for the most effecient cartridge in that length, what would it be? lets pretend we are talkin about a pistol :) we're huntin deer and black bear out to 250 or so. i will be handloading for it, and could even have it reamed for a different cartridge. maybe even have the option of loading a pistol type bullet at a slower velocity for plinkin little critters...
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  10. eshell

    eshell Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the "less than 16" rifle" issue, Stormrider addressed that with his "$200 for the Short Barreled Rifle" (SBR) statement. You simply file a federal Form 1, complete with jumped hoops, pay your money and build it when your *approved form comes back* with "tax" stamp affixed.

    I'd second the 7-08 suggestion. I shot a 7-30 Waters in a 16" T/C Contender quite a bit and it worked well. A little more power would have been welcome and the 7-08 will provide that.

    If you're eventually going suppressed, and sub-sonic, bullet weight is your friend, and bigger calibers rule in the energy dept. FWIW, any (barely) sub-sonic round is going to have similar drop/drift figures Suppression w/o sub-sonic ammo still yields a pretty good "crack", though still not nearly as load as the report of an unsuppressed CF rifle.
     
  11. Strick9

    Strick9 Well-Known Member

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    KISS 16.6 inches and call it done...
     
  12. Stormrider

    Stormrider Well-Known Member

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    Tell that to Randy Weaver.
     
  13. swebb38

    swebb38 Well-Known Member

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    supressed calibers

    A few other calibers to consider that arent over the counter but arent that expensive is the 300 whisper, its a 221 fireball with a 30 cal neck size, very quiet and is available off the internet, not as cheap as walmart but very fun to shoot, very accurate. Also I have a 22 hornet in a 14 in contender pistol silenced and that is a blast for varmints.
    Stacy
     
  14. rtv900

    rtv900 Well-Known Member

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    Legal. They only way to go!! Why jump through hoops for 2 inches. Go 16 and forget about the rest.