Duplicate Chronograph results

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by jab1983, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. jab1983

    jab1983 New Member

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    I bought a scale that measures down to .02 grains the other week for 20 bucks. Well last week i was reloading for an OCW test in my rem 700 bdl .270 and found that 2 out of 3 shots, in all my charge weights, came to be duplicates on my chronograph. Is it odd to have this many duplicates when reloading for an OCW test. Or can this be attributed to keeping my powder charge of 3 bullets in a group within .02 grains?

    O i am using the $100 "Pro Chrono"
     
  2. Topgun 30-06

    Topgun 30-06 Well-Known Member

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    A $20 scale to weigh your powder charges and a $100 chrono, huh? Don't you think weighing powder properly when mistakes can maim/kill you deserves a little bit better equipment than that? I'll bet that scale is a real dandy, especially if the grads are in 2/100ths of a grain increments!
     

  3. jab1983

    jab1983 New Member

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    I guess some people pay more for items because its convenient to pay more and think they are getting a better product. I prefer to research and pay less for my items that provide the same results.

    Even though you call into question the validity of my equipment your post did not provide and answer to my question. If i would have left the value of the scale and chrono out would you still have wasted my time with a pointless response to what i asked?
     
  4. Topgun 30-06

    Topgun 30-06 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, if you haven't noticed it's been 24 hours/125 views of your post and you have had no other responses to your question. Don't you think that may just be for the exact reason I politely gave you when most of the time you would have a bunch of comments by now? If you would rather I said buy some good equipment and that you get what you pay for, rather than junk for $20 and $100, ones which you are literally risking life and limb on, I'll just be blunt for you if that's what it takes! It's a shame you didn't think a little and digest what I said to answer your question. As a retired W&M Investigator in LE for over 30 years, I'll say again that $20 for a digital scale to reload with is just plain :rolleyes: Same goes for your cheap chrono and that's why you got so many duplicate results! I'd pay that much in postage just to insure that critical equipment like that was shipped properly, LOL! You stated: I prefer to research and pay less for my items "that provide the same results". Duh!!! Do you get it now, as the first post was not intended as a pointless response?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  5. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

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    If the chronograph is not wrong... you little scale must be doing the job. :)

    That said, if it's an electronic scale I'd probably want to "check and balance" it with a beam scale... if it's a cheap Lee beam scale, they actually work, and can be depended on... you didn't say what kind of scale it was.

    As to the identical numbers...

    I have seen this, especially with my .308 win loads when I get to a good powder level.

    I have an F1 Chrony, so that might be part of the reason for identical numbers... I was shooting some .308 loads, 168 grain SMK's with 43.6 grains of IMR 4895 across my F1 and I got three 2599's in a row, then a 2601... and another 2599...

    This said, the chronograph cannot and should not be depended on for load proofing. I know that many people do, but the target must always be the final arbiter.

    For those who don't have good access to long range shooting areas, a chronograph is the only way to hazard a guess as to what your vertical will be at say, 800 yards. But again, actually shooting paper at the longest range you plan to use the rifle is the only sure way to know what it's going to do in the field.

    Dan
     
  6. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    I tend to shy away from cheaper equipment because of the afore-mentioned adjective, but if that's all the pesos you have, go for it but make sure you are safe by cross checking with a beam scale and weights. Usually loads will come in and out of uniformity as you run a charge set. That said, I've seen good combos running weighed charges hit a 4 fps x for three shots at one charge level. The 270 isn't really known for uniformity to that degree, though. What was the load??
     
  7. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    30-06, bashing someone for being frugal isn't very classy, now is it?????
    Unsafe; yes, bash the crap outta them. But was he unsafe??? Not if he checked his scale first with a check weight.
     
  8. Topgun 30-06

    Topgun 30-06 Well-Known Member

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    When you get 30 years under your belt with the knowledge I have on devices from the LE job I was in, much of which was helping develop the laws and regulations in NIST Handbooks 44 and 130 that the states use in their W&M programs involving various scales, gas pumps, etc., then we'll talk! Using a $20 digital scale to weigh powder where ONE mistake depending on that device will kill you is plain foolish! I stand by my statement that using a cheap $20 device of any type for reloading is asking for big problems! If you call that bashing, so be it, but if I made one person that reads the thread stop and reevaluate what they're doing I may have saved some body parts or a life!
     
  9. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    '06, I understand where you are coming from as to cheap= crap. especially with scales. He didn't even state a brand or if he got it used, though.
    I don't mind people being frugal (if safe too) as much as the poor soul with an ackly or wonderthumper that thinks his little pea-shooter can walk with the over-bore mags. They are the ones that turn their rifles into frag grenades. Or sell 'em used after one to many HOT ones through the pipe. New frontiers, my arse.
     
  10. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why the OP brought up price in the first place? Bragging? Or, uncertainty?

    When something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    My scale that claims .02 grain precision cost me almost $400. I wish I had gotten it for $20.

    Regardless of price, you can't be too safe and it's best to cross-check everything when risking life and limb.

    Even expensive electronic scales can/do go haywire.

    So, double check your weights. Be safe.

    -- richard
     
  11. Topgun 30-06

    Topgun 30-06 Well-Known Member

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    I guess maybe I owe an apology to the members and OP for being so blunt, but nobody that knows me has ever accused me of sugar coating anything. We are talking serious chit here and everyone needs to realize that and listen to the wise words in the previous post by Richard no matter what they are using!
     
  12. Joe King

    Joe King Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I had written it off as BS until this post.

    Isn't 1/700,000gr about 1 small kernel of a short extruded powder, or 1 kernel of an average sized ball powder?

    Not bein an ass just surprised
     
  13. MNbogboy

    MNbogboy Well-Known Member

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    Joe,
    If I remember right an average kernal of lets say h4831 weighs about 1/26 (.038) grain and h4350 weighs about 1/35 (.028)grain therefore a scale is accurate to .02 will easily detect one kernal of those powders....

    My first guess was that the OP had a Lee beam (about $25)..The manufacturer claims 1/10 accuracy and 1/20 sensitivity...My guess was that he converted the 1/20 wrong to come up with .02 instead of .05...But that was only a guess I wish we could hear from him to clarify what scale..

    A buddy of mine had one and for weighing powder it seemed to be just fine....If they were unstable and causing over or under charges most certainly Lee would have discontinued them...My only problem with it would be its capacity limitations (only about 100 gr)...Bullet sorting with anything but small calibers not be possible....
     
  14. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    I have a Sartorius that will weigh individual kernels of H4831sc.

    That level of precision is rarely required or useful. But, there are times when it is handy.

    I've seen inexpensive scales that are precise to .02 grams which is about .3 grains.

    Most moderately priced digital reloading scales resolve to about .1 grains.

    There are times when it's safe/accurate to drop powder by volume without weighing. But, you need to know when this is the case and not take chances.

    A precise scale that's not calibrated or used correctly is just as bad or worse than an imprecise scale that's used with care.

    -- richard