Duplex Reticles, Custom Reticles, Windage & Ranging

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by BigMountainShooter, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. BigMountainShooter

    BigMountainShooter Member

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    Currently I have a Savage 7mm Rem Mag being customized by Weaver Rifles. I am looking for a scope and plan on using turrets from Kenton Industries.

    What is wrong with using turrets on a duplex reticle and dialing in for the correct windage and elevation? I guess I dont see the need for a custom reticle, such as those being sold by Leupold, John Burns Precision, Holland's ART, etc...

    Obviously time is an issue when setting up for a shot and I would need a high quality range finder. This is not a comment on quality of any companies products, but a matter of clarification and knowledge.

    Thanks
    BMS
     
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    BIG

    Custom reticles ar normaly for shorter distance (500 to 1000yards) and
    work very well if the shooter is proficient at reading wind,mirageand distance.

    But for the really long distance one needs to take the time and adjust the
    scope.

    It is mostly a mater of choice, I like the milldot reticles but never use them
    as a range finder now that there are very good range finders available. And
    on long shots prefer to use the turrents and on shots closer than 5oo or
    600yrds I will use the mill dots for hold over an windage because error is
    minimal.

    Some times you dont have time to adjust the scope (Like running shots) but
    ethics prevents me from taking running shots over 4 or 500yrds so if I cant
    be assured of a one shot kill then I dont take the shot.

    At long distance there are so many variables and a lot of thought and prep
    must be made before taking the shot ,and hold is just to inconsistant.

    No mater what system you chose be proficient with it and know your limits.

    So to answer your question, There is nothing wrong with using a Duplex Reticle
    and dialing up the range and windage ,In fact it is recomended on the longer
    shots.

    Good luck and good hunting
    J E CUSTOM
     

  3. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Excellent comments JE.
    I'm going to a tactical match this weekend and intend to use a Holland reticle for all distances (300-1,000 yards). There will be 64 targets in all shooting from the prone position-Eight stations with eight targets at each station. With 4 seconds per hundred yards of time allowed per target (40 seconds on a target that is 1,000 yards) using the reticle should be to my advantage in this scenario-even more so when using a specialty handgun.
    If you think that most of your shooting will be done beyond 1K+ then you may want to consider 1/8 MOA, just for the sake of precision.
     
  4. BigMountainShooter

    BigMountainShooter Member

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    Thankyou for the responses. My intentions are to purchase a VX-111 (4.5-14x50mm w/ Duplex Reticle) and Swaro range finding binoculars. I want to be able to shoot out to 750 yards. Which I think the VX-III is capable of doing so. I am researching now the true capabilites of the Swarovski 8x30 Laser Guide Range Finder. What I hope to accomplish is to have a single bino/range finder and avoid the expense and weight of having binoculars and range finders in my pack or on my person while hunting.

    Does this sound reasonable? Can the Swaro's range out to 750yrds in most conditions consistenly? I know with practice my rifle and optic combination will do the job. My concerns however are the expense of range finders and custom reticles. If members have a suggestions of range finders or range finding binoculars that are consistent out to 750yrds I am interested in hearing your opinions.

    Thanks
    BMS
     
  5. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    4-500 yd running shots?

    J E Custom

    If you can make one-shot kills on running animals out to 4-500 yards then you're one heck of a shot. I can too if the animal is running dead at, or away, from me. Well..., I might be able to hit an elephant on the move at those distances. :)
     
  6. bkondeff

    bkondeff Well-Known Member

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    BMS,

    Well you and I seem to be at a similar place. I just purchased a Sako 75 SS in 7MM mag with the hopes of stretching my range out to 800 yards. I will use a Leupold and will have an elevation knob done by their custom shop. I'm still undecided for windage. I think at the range I'm considering what I would like is a reticle that has .5 moa lines, but Leupold doesn't offer anything but mil. BTW I hope your custom rifle shoots very well, I was going to go custom with a Mod 700 action I have but didn't want to wait. So far the Sako is shooting about .8MOA, but i havn't put much work into the reloads so I home to drop down to approx .5MOA.

    Good Luck.
     
  7. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Phorwath.

    But just like the long range rifles are special purpose I have several
    rifles built for running boar competition 300,400 and 500yrds from left
    to right and right to left on a "haul ass" wild hog target that goes 100
    yards and turns around and returns to the start.

    You are given 5 shots and scored .It does take some practice but so
    does long range shooting. And practice has paid off. Two hunting seasons
    ago I was very lucky and dropped 4 hogs in a line about 150yrds long,
    and was using my 7/08 custom (20''#7 taper Shillen) And was very busy
    with the bolt action remingtion.

    So I have some practice at running targets/game but since I left california
    I have not found a range that has a running boar setup.

    Just like realy long range shots that make me uncomfortable running shots
    may make others uncomfortable.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  8. elkhuntinguide

    elkhuntinguide Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2008
    I use the Swarovski Guide and for the money it is an excellent choice. It will range 750 yards all day. I am able to range elk out to 1300 yds consistantly. Works great in all conditions as well. This is where most other brands fail. I ranged a group of rocks every day, three times a day, for one week from the same location. All readings were within 2 yards of each other in sunny, over cast, drizzling rain and light snow. This group of rocks was 1893 Yards.

    As for your scope step up tho the Mark 4 Leupold in 4.5-14 x 50. Has the tactical turret knobs that work excellent. Call Darrell Holland as his reticle is really nice. I have changed most of my Leupolds and S&B's to his ART reticle. Great guy to talk with also.

    Just some suggestions. Hope this helps.
     
  9. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    The Swaro is great out to 750 & beyond. The Leica 1200 would be cheaper and should get you to 750 just as often as the Swaro. I have owned a 1200 Leica and upgraded to the Swaro, but I was looking for more distance than you are. If 750 was the max, save your $ and get the Leica 1200 scan.
     
  10. BigMountainShooter

    BigMountainShooter Member

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    Clarification

    If I were to purchase a Mark 4 Leupold in 4.5-14 x 50 with Tactical milling, had an accurate hand load, a ballistics table or program, and had accurate ranges to targets (by using a range finder), could I eleminate the need for a custom BDC turret? A custom BDC turret keeps me at a specific bullet weight and powder charge. I would like some flexibility even though my rifle will have a certain load it shoots best.

    As I understand it I can convert my known range into a known value of mils or moas based on outputs from a ballistics program. For example, an elk at 500 yrds (rifle zeroed at 300 yrds) I would be required to click for an X number of moas/mils. If this is not correct please clarify and correct. A custom BDC allows you to click to a yardage reading on a BDC turret.

    I hope to find the most economical, flexible, and accurate scope/rifle/range finder combination possible. A custom reticle, even if retrofitted at a later date, still maybe more expensive and less flexible than the Mk 4 tactical milling reticle. I am not affraid to use math and not affraid to use a PDA ballistics software in order to gain precision and flexibility.

    Thanks to everyone for the responses so far. I look forward to eveyones view to my questions above.

    Regard,

    BMS
     
  11. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Big

    Yes you can convert known distance to number of clicks by
    using a ballistic program and it will get you close but you need
    to shoot at the same distance to make minor corrections to
    make an accurate table.

    Bullet manufactures dont all ways give you the true BC and the
    only way I know is to use the ballistic program to get you close
    and then fine tune your ballistic table.

    Good luck
    J E CUSTOM
     
  12. sscoyote

    sscoyote Well-Known Member

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    Exactly--save a little weight and just get the L. 1200 CRF. It's my favorite these days.

    Your idea of using the TMR reticle will work OK but as u go further down the reticle for elevation, windage then becomes less accurate. If u're not afraid to apply math to establish a more accurate reticle to trajectory system of reference to only 750 yds. or so, then here's what i would do.

    I'd get the std. Duplex reticle and use it as a ballistic reticle to it's limits. The x-hair to plex post tip is 2.6 MOA @ 14X. That'll get u beyond 500 yds. for 10 mph windage and 350-375 for elevation with say a 140 BT @ 3100 fps. 250 yd. zero @ 4000 ft. SAP. I have interpolated beyond a plex post tip to make shots in windy conditions before and it's not hard to do (a 300 yd. shot on a coyote in 10 mph 3 o'clock wind using a 17 MIV XP-100 handgun using a windage zero of 1.3 "plex units" with the optic i was using at the time, for example). I'd have a turret installed either BDC or the std. tgt. turret Leupold offers. I'd calculate, and test the zeros using the reticle to it's limit and then turret elevation using the reticle's center axis for addtl. turret range, plex post tip for windage. Put it all in a Butler Creek scope cap cover for quick efficient reference.

    Another idea would be to use the Varmint Hunter reticle using the same system as i described above. It has an excellent windage reference system and will get u beyond 750 yds. using turret for elevation, reticle for windage easily.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2008
  13. Capt Academy

    Capt Academy Well-Known Member

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    I had the Leica CF 1200 and did not think it was all that great, so I sent it back and now have the Swarovski 8x30. This range finder will go out to 1500 yards. So, I would get the Swaro, as you will want the longer ranging distance once you start shooting long range. It becomes addictive, you will want to shot farther and farther. Get the Swaro, you'll be glad you did.
     
  14. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    If you need 750 yards, my Bushnell 1500 will do that easily. I have ranged to 1600 yards exactly on a road sign, can't find anywhere considerably longer. This thing picks up a reading instantly, I was in the passenger seat of a truck on the highway, and I could range medium road signs out to 1500 yards through the front glass, and I was unbelievably shaky. As soon as the ranging circle passed over the sign I got a reading. I am really impressed with it.