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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Drop in Velocity?
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 60041" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>Bcraft1111,</p><p></p><p>What I was referring to as far as loose tolerances in the brass really is not the weight of each case, or the volume. They seemed to be acceptible in consistancy for this large of a case, suprisingly.</p><p></p><p>What I was referring to was body wall and case neck thickness. Some Lazzeroni brass I have measured in the case wall thickness just ahead of the solid case head varied by as much as 0.020" from one side of the case to the other. This is impressively bad consistance.</p><p></p><p>Others would be identical but there were enough bad ones in the lot of brass I measured to show the true colors of the brass quality. About 15% would be off by this much.</p><p></p><p>Case neck thickness also varied by up to 0.001" from side to side. Again, some was very consistant, others were pathetic in quality. </p><p></p><p>When you drop that kind of money on each case, they better be quality, all of them!!!</p><p></p><p>Schneider barrels are surely quality barrel, only bad thing the barrel is only as good as the machining in the rifle. I have not looked at enough Lazzeroni rifles to determine the quality of the machining in their rifles but this sounds like a mechanical problem to me.</p><p></p><p>Gary does have a point to the barrel whip issue but at only 27" of barrel length, a #5 contour is a pretty stiff barrel espeically when using 150 gr class bullets.</p><p></p><p>I use Lilja #6 contour 30" stainless barrels on my Extreme Sporters chambered for my Allen Magnum rifles and they print sub 1/2 moa consistantly and in the 1.5" range at 500 yards. True these are slightly smaller case capacities but they are longer barrels as well. I also totally free float the full barrel length and never have a problem with barrel whip, even in the 270 AM with the 130 gr bullets loaded to 3850 fps.</p><p></p><p>I also use Lilja #5 contours on my conventional sporters for rounds such as the 300 RUM which is only about 50 to 75 fps if that behind the Warbird in equal length barrels, never had a problem.</p><p></p><p>I will get you some load data from my brother that he developed in his Warbird with the 180 gr Accubond. He is getting some great groups out of his Sako.</p><p></p><p>Of the powders you list, RL-25 would be the best, IMR-7828 can be temp sensitive and 8700 can be a little dirty until top pressures are reached. Rl-25 is relatively temp resistant and will produce good velocities.</p><p></p><p>Retumbo will perform better then any of them in consistancy and top velocity and also temp resistant.</p><p></p><p>How close are you seating the X bullet to the origins of the rifling? Unfortunately, I would not recommend getting any closer then 0.050" off the lands for safety sake. </p><p></p><p>Your rifle obviously has a pretty long throat if the Accubond can be seated out to 3.760 on the shorter then full length Warbird case. Unfortunately this will effect accuracy unless the throat is cut to tight specs which by the sounds of it it is not. </p><p></p><p>For curiousity sake though, I would seat the Accubonds as long as possible and feed them single shot and see how they shoot. IF your groups shrink dramatically, you may want to look into having a longer mag box fitted if possible.</p><p></p><p>I do not have a Warbird reamer in shop but if you wanted a barrel chambered I would get one in.</p><p></p><p>If your barrel will shoot well at times and not at others, I would say we are dealing with either a mechanical vibration consistancy problem or a load dimension problem such as bullet seating depth away from the rifling.</p><p></p><p>Again, get a know accurate bullet and full test that first. The Accubonds already have a much better accuracy reputation then the X bullet ever will.</p><p></p><p>I would also like to warn you about that load data you listed, When we were developing loads in my brothers Warbird, Retumbo was not yet released and RL-25 was the powder for this round. Well, he was blowing primer pockets out at 102 gr and only 3450 fps with RL-25. Sure this was in the Sako rifle but I would be cautious about using Lazzeronis top loads.</p><p></p><p>HE lists his Warbird as faster then the 30-378 Wby which is about 15 gr larger in capacity then his case, physics are physics, this ain't possible without higher pressures.</p><p></p><p>I will get you some safe load data to start with the 180 gr Accubond and Retumbo.</p><p></p><p>Good Shooting!!</p><p></p><p>Kirby Allen(50)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 60041, member: 10"] Bcraft1111, What I was referring to as far as loose tolerances in the brass really is not the weight of each case, or the volume. They seemed to be acceptible in consistancy for this large of a case, suprisingly. What I was referring to was body wall and case neck thickness. Some Lazzeroni brass I have measured in the case wall thickness just ahead of the solid case head varied by as much as 0.020" from one side of the case to the other. This is impressively bad consistance. Others would be identical but there were enough bad ones in the lot of brass I measured to show the true colors of the brass quality. About 15% would be off by this much. Case neck thickness also varied by up to 0.001" from side to side. Again, some was very consistant, others were pathetic in quality. When you drop that kind of money on each case, they better be quality, all of them!!! Schneider barrels are surely quality barrel, only bad thing the barrel is only as good as the machining in the rifle. I have not looked at enough Lazzeroni rifles to determine the quality of the machining in their rifles but this sounds like a mechanical problem to me. Gary does have a point to the barrel whip issue but at only 27" of barrel length, a #5 contour is a pretty stiff barrel espeically when using 150 gr class bullets. I use Lilja #6 contour 30" stainless barrels on my Extreme Sporters chambered for my Allen Magnum rifles and they print sub 1/2 moa consistantly and in the 1.5" range at 500 yards. True these are slightly smaller case capacities but they are longer barrels as well. I also totally free float the full barrel length and never have a problem with barrel whip, even in the 270 AM with the 130 gr bullets loaded to 3850 fps. I also use Lilja #5 contours on my conventional sporters for rounds such as the 300 RUM which is only about 50 to 75 fps if that behind the Warbird in equal length barrels, never had a problem. I will get you some load data from my brother that he developed in his Warbird with the 180 gr Accubond. He is getting some great groups out of his Sako. Of the powders you list, RL-25 would be the best, IMR-7828 can be temp sensitive and 8700 can be a little dirty until top pressures are reached. Rl-25 is relatively temp resistant and will produce good velocities. Retumbo will perform better then any of them in consistancy and top velocity and also temp resistant. How close are you seating the X bullet to the origins of the rifling? Unfortunately, I would not recommend getting any closer then 0.050" off the lands for safety sake. Your rifle obviously has a pretty long throat if the Accubond can be seated out to 3.760 on the shorter then full length Warbird case. Unfortunately this will effect accuracy unless the throat is cut to tight specs which by the sounds of it it is not. For curiousity sake though, I would seat the Accubonds as long as possible and feed them single shot and see how they shoot. IF your groups shrink dramatically, you may want to look into having a longer mag box fitted if possible. I do not have a Warbird reamer in shop but if you wanted a barrel chambered I would get one in. If your barrel will shoot well at times and not at others, I would say we are dealing with either a mechanical vibration consistancy problem or a load dimension problem such as bullet seating depth away from the rifling. Again, get a know accurate bullet and full test that first. The Accubonds already have a much better accuracy reputation then the X bullet ever will. I would also like to warn you about that load data you listed, When we were developing loads in my brothers Warbird, Retumbo was not yet released and RL-25 was the powder for this round. Well, he was blowing primer pockets out at 102 gr and only 3450 fps with RL-25. Sure this was in the Sako rifle but I would be cautious about using Lazzeronis top loads. HE lists his Warbird as faster then the 30-378 Wby which is about 15 gr larger in capacity then his case, physics are physics, this ain't possible without higher pressures. I will get you some safe load data to start with the 180 gr Accubond and Retumbo. Good Shooting!! Kirby Allen(50) [/QUOTE]
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