Does the 5.56x57 (22-06) cartridge exist?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Max Heat, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    I know that the 6.5x57 IS out there - aka the 25-06. But in my desire to jump into the high-end 22 cal game, I have decided to go beyond the 220, which I already have dies for. Now I want to go right to the most barrel-burning top-end 22CF case out there. I think that case might be the 22-06, which would be a necked-down 25-06 case, which is a necked-down 30-06 case.

    My questions are:

    Is that the one I should be looking for, or is there another one out there with even MORE oomph (powder capacity)?

    Since I don't really want to have to go custom on a die set, that round wouldn't still be under "wildcat" status, would it?

    If it is, then what IS the wildest (top) dog of the 22 cal variety, that is not so wild as to be cat?

    Also, if the above doen't pan out, what are the highest capacity [non-custom] .243/6mm case dies available?
     
  2. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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  3. pdog2062

    pdog2062 Well-Known Member

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    try the 22 catbird[270 necked down to 22] or the 22 tth[Texas Trophy Hunter].it is very hard to find a wildcat round that someone has not already tried and named.
     
  4. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    your talking apples and oranges! The 22/57mm case is really nothing but a .224/ 6mm Remington case. The 22/06 is a completely different animal as the case length is about 64mm long. Both are grossly overbore, and in the end will give you a short barrel life. There's also the .224 Vias, and that's pretty much nothing but a 6.5x55 improved necked down to .224. The shoulder is also pushed back a couple millimeters. Seems to work best with 70 grain and bigger bullets. Still somewhat hard on a barrel, but still not as bad as the others would be.

    You might also want to check out the .220 Jaybird. It's a full two inch long case that is improved with a .30" long neck. Once again best with 75 grain and heavier bullets. Kind of like a 22-250 AI on steroids!
    gary
     
  5. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    Those were some pretty quick reponses.

    I actually HAVE seen that pic of the 50BMG necked down to .22, next to the (20 gauge, I think) shotshell. I must say that it IS kind of cool to see it again though. My question is did someone actually physically do it, or is it photoshopped? Either way, I can't see it actually working without blowing up, unless it it is SEVERELY under-loaded to like <25%. But then what would be the point? Has anyone looked at the 22-243 dies thread (currently running, near-top), where one of the responders actually DID do a 30cal neckdown of the 50BMG cart. Unless he is BSing, he claims 5850fps, pushing 180gr pills. It did evoke a response from me!

    I have heard of the TTH and the catbird, which apparently DOES use the "06" or "x57" case, since it is .270 based.

    Are dies for either of those, or any of the others mentioned for that matter, available without going "custom'?

    P.S. - By "x57", I am referring to the case's volumetric capacity, NOT an actual size measurement.
     
  6. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    when you move into overbore cartridges you start to reduce barrel life and built in accuracy, plus they seem to get a little finicky with their loads. The Jaybird is about it with the .224 caliber, and it's overbore till you get past 75 grains. The 22-243 family are well known barrel burners mostly due to their shoulder neck design. That's the one serious advantage the Jaybird has over the others. Uses a 35 degree shoulder with a .300" neck length. I'd rather have had a 30 degree shoulder, but that's just me (less of a doughnut problem than the 40 degree shoulder). You can have a huge case capacity, but you simply can't burn all that powder with a more common length barrel. Plus the Hogdon manual has loading data in it.
    gary
     
  7. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    RCBS and Redding both make dies for the 22-284, which would have a very similar case capacity to a 22-06. I don't have any experience with the cartridge. I can only confirm its existence.

    The x57 you keep referring to is a Mauser case, not a 30-06. The 30-06 has more capacity. I do think 22x57AI would be interesting. I would expect it to be somewhere between 22-243 and 22-284 in case capacity and performance. In any of those, I would expect heavy for caliber bullets and ultra slow powders to be the way to go.

    I am thinking Quickload would be a useful tool to get a ballpark idea of what to expect from rounds like these.
     
  8. HARPERC

    HARPERC Well-Known Member

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    Sentimental favorite .224 Clark. There are others very close, so i won't say it's the hottest or newest, but he was doing with his own bullets, before most.
     
  9. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I thought the 30 carbine (kalashnikov, or is it kalishnakov?) was 7.62x39, the .308 was 7.62x51, and the 30-06 was 7.62x57. But according to chuck hawk, the 30-06 is about 10 grains more than that. And the x57 round does appear to be the 7.21x57 (7mmx57) mouser case. Maybe THAT be the .284 case you refer to with the 22-284? I have decided to put this on the back burner and concentrate on getting some maximum barrel into my ultra 7 for now, anyways.
     
  10. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    you have to go back to the very late 19th century to see that Paul Mauser came out with a 12mm (head diameter) case that was 57mm long. Later Springfield stretched that same case length to 64mm. This same case has been stretched and also shortened by other folks later. I think the 6BR is the shortest, and maybe the 270 Winchester is the longest version (or 280?). To the best of my knowledge the 7.92x57 Mauser case started it all in that case family.

    Seven millimeter wise there are a gazillion of them! All the way from the 7mm TCU to
    the 7mm Ultra mag. Efficiency wise the 7mm TCU is probably the best followed closely by the 7BR. After you get past the 280's and 7mm Remington mag (and Weatherby) you start to see serious diminishing returns for the efforts involved. The .284 is a good round, but the .280 is much better. Parker Ackley really like the basic 7mm Remington mag case as well as the 7mm Weatherby mag. Then you also have the 7mm WSM case that fits in most short actions nicely. Ackley felt the case capacity of the 7mm Remington mag to be about the max the bore could use unless you were shooting very heavy bullets. Then the Weatherby would take over. Yet both are only a fraction faster than the plain jane .280! The 57mm case length has gone thru various steps all the way out to .338, and probably .358 if I really looked hard. The 7x57 Ackley improved is well known as a great round that is only slightly slower than the .280, but uses a lot less powder. The .257AI necked up to 7mm is simply the 7x57 improved (or vise versa). I'm seriously thinking about the same round in 30 caliber. Ought to flat smoke the .308 in every way. My idea is to build a stretched .300 Savage, but with the .010" taper that Ackley used with the 30 degree shoulder that Savage used.
    gary
     
  11. CB11WYO

    CB11WYO Well-Known Member

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  12. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I'm working on designing a .22 calber wildcat right now, just for shoots and giggles. I don't know how well it would work, but I can drop a few hints...It WILL be based off a pretty well-modified '06 case (standard bolt face) and if it ever comes to be, it will be tested out of a 26" barrel. It will probably be a barrel burner... But I think it would be one NASTY coyote caliber with the +77 grain bullets.

    I'm currently waiting to get back specs for it from the guy who does my QuickDesign cartridge drawings for me.

    I need to just invest in QuickDesign... :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  13. Varberger757

    Varberger757 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that cartridge still exists! Mostly used in Germany and Austria for hunting roebuck and varmint. Both as "normal" version called 5,6 x 57 and as rimmed version 5,6 x 57 R. It's a lovely cartridge with high velocity and nice trajectory and still in production (RWS).
     
  14. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    I'm still confused on whether the "x 57" number indicates length or grainage capacity. It almost look like it exists in BOTH realms. TMF's explanation doesn't seem to clear anything.either. I'm getting so confused by it all that I'm starting to pick up a headache!

    Hey MR05, make sure you keep us filled in on what's going on with your project. It is very intersting.