Do I need FL sizing die?
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Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
Yes. After a few reloads of just neck sizing. the case will become tight and difficult to chamber. Most re-loaders will then FL size and start the process over.
DocB
Well-Known Member
My wife and I are going to take up reloading our own ammo also (how awesome is that! It was HER idea!!
). We will each be reloading for just one rifle also, her a .223 and me 300WM. I had the same question but also: if we use FL dies, is there a need to do neck dies also? Doesn't FL dies size the neck as well as the shoulders? Or will it put too much stress on the brass? Just full of rookie questions, huh! lol
). We will each be reloading for just one rifle also, her a .223 and me 300WM. I had the same question but also: if we use FL dies, is there a need to do neck dies also? Doesn't FL dies size the neck as well as the shoulders? Or will it put too much stress on the brass? Just full of rookie questions, huh! lol Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
you don't need a neck die, but you'll always need a full length sizer. No way around it
gary
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
g0rd0
Well-Known Member
FL siseing does just that it sises the entire case wich is why you lube the whole case. What it does is bring your fired cases back to (or at least as close as possible), factory (SAMI), specs. When this is done the round will chamber easly in any rile in that caliber, depending of course that you seated the bullet to OAL specs.
Neck siseing will only sise the neck, not the shoulder or body and deffinatly not the base. They work by useing a carbide ring or a collet. If you neck sise only your brass will definatly last longer, your ammo will be more accurate and your velosities will be more consistant. The down sises are 1) if you are useing a pump or auto loading or leaver action your neck sised rounds may not feed right, 2) if you have 2 rifles in the same caliber you may find that your brass from 1 rifle may not fit the other. 3) around 5 loadings you may notice hard feeding and bolt closeings, at this point you will need to FL sise to bring the brass back to normal.
FL, or NS either way you will need to trim and anneal, I trim every load and anneal every 5th siseing (at this point is when I FL sise after annealing)
Neck siseing will only sise the neck, not the shoulder or body and deffinatly not the base. They work by useing a carbide ring or a collet. If you neck sise only your brass will definatly last longer, your ammo will be more accurate and your velosities will be more consistant. The down sises are 1) if you are useing a pump or auto loading or leaver action your neck sised rounds may not feed right, 2) if you have 2 rifles in the same caliber you may find that your brass from 1 rifle may not fit the other. 3) around 5 loadings you may notice hard feeding and bolt closeings, at this point you will need to FL sise to bring the brass back to normal.
FL, or NS either way you will need to trim and anneal, I trim every load and anneal every 5th siseing (at this point is when I FL sise after annealing)
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
FL sizing is a choice, but not a single choice.
The choices leading to FL sizing, or successful avoidance of it:
-Cartridge design
-Chamber body clearances
-Load pressure
-Amount of barrel steel around a chamber
CARTRIDGE DESIGN: large capacity cases with high body taper and low shoulder angles (like a 30-06) will have to be FL sized.
CHAMBER BODY CLEARANCES: On firing, cases hit and follow expanding chambers walls. Once pressure drops, the case and chamber walls spring back. With big clearances from 'new' case dimensions, firing will expand the brass to the point of yielding. These now larger cases are thinner by as much. Thinner cases spring back less, while the chamber springs back fully(it better), potentially leaving an interference fit.
High LOAD PRESSURE and insufficient BARREL STEEL AROUND CHAMBER go hand in hand at this point to do the same as excess clearances, even without excess clearances.
These conditions are chronic, and they are choices today.
Shoulder bumping is another subject, but similar in cause/effect and commonly needed. An added cause/choice directly contributing to this, is excess head spacing.
I don't and never will FL size, as this is among my choices.
The choices leading to FL sizing, or successful avoidance of it:
-Cartridge design
-Chamber body clearances
-Load pressure
-Amount of barrel steel around a chamber
CARTRIDGE DESIGN: large capacity cases with high body taper and low shoulder angles (like a 30-06) will have to be FL sized.
CHAMBER BODY CLEARANCES: On firing, cases hit and follow expanding chambers walls. Once pressure drops, the case and chamber walls spring back. With big clearances from 'new' case dimensions, firing will expand the brass to the point of yielding. These now larger cases are thinner by as much. Thinner cases spring back less, while the chamber springs back fully(it better), potentially leaving an interference fit.
High LOAD PRESSURE and insufficient BARREL STEEL AROUND CHAMBER go hand in hand at this point to do the same as excess clearances, even without excess clearances.
These conditions are chronic, and they are choices today.
Shoulder bumping is another subject, but similar in cause/effect and commonly needed. An added cause/choice directly contributing to this, is excess head spacing.
I don't and never will FL size, as this is among my choices.
DocB
Well-Known Member
So if I'm tracking you correctly, instead of full length sizing you prefer to neck size and then when necessary replace your brass? If this is the case, about how many firings are you getting from your brass?
Thanks, Doc
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
I used to neck size only with an occasional, maybe every 3rd reload bump back. The problem with that is after the bump back you essentially have a different case then prior. I have since reverted back to FL sizing and have seen no significant difference in accuracy.
Some people neck size an some people FL size and many from both crowds shoot very well.
I like the idea of always doing it the same way so that's why I have gone back to FL size.
For all future builds, I will send a reamer print to my die maker (Hornady at present) and have Match Grade Bushing FL Sizer (with expander) and Seater made for that rifle chamber and bullet at about $200 per set.
Redding, Hornady, Forester, and others all make good dies. They all make different grades of dies. The best dies you can get are made for your chamber and bullet by whoever makes them.
Some people neck size an some people FL size and many from both crowds shoot very well.
I like the idea of always doing it the same way so that's why I have gone back to FL size.
For all future builds, I will send a reamer print to my die maker (Hornady at present) and have Match Grade Bushing FL Sizer (with expander) and Seater made for that rifle chamber and bullet at about $200 per set.
Redding, Hornady, Forester, and others all make good dies. They all make different grades of dies. The best dies you can get are made for your chamber and bullet by whoever makes them.
Bullet bumper
Well-Known Member
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- May 20, 2009
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If you already have a neck size only die thern buy a Redding body die to go with it. For a bolt gun there is no point or value in oversizing with a normal Full Length die all you need is a touch up of the body and shoulder when they get a bit tight.
Cases will last longer , chamber fit is preserved between reloads. Resizing precision is way better .
Cases will last longer , chamber fit is preserved between reloads. Resizing precision is way better .
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
I should mention, that with non-custom dies, I only FL size enough for the shoulder to be set back enough for the case to be snugly, but easily chambered. And I do it for each reloading. This is easily accomplished by sizing a case and chambering it before seating a bullet to test the fit. If it fits easily, turn the die up slightly and repeat until it becomes difficult to close and lock on the case. Then turn it back down slightly until it chambers easily.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
I'm in agreement with Bullet Bumper, and follow his route.
Once my cases are fully fireformed(via partial NS only with 3-4 firings), I measure & cull by H20 capacity. Within a couple firings it'll be time to bump ~30deg shoulders 1thou(higher angles = less often, if ever). My bump is with Redding body dies, or if chamber/die mismatch, I go to JLC Precision custom body dies. I partial NS using Wilson & nitrided bushings. Some of my Wilsons were blanks cut with my reamers.
I have never had to replace a piece of brass. With my loads, dies, chambers, & this sizing, it lasts forever. Given this, I don't lose any sleep keeping ~120 perfect cases per 1,000 measured, and further culling out ~20-30 from ~120 due to H20 capacity departures. I get 80 or so cases that match in capacity,, will always match, and they will not grow in loaded runout.
I also never need to re-trim(which is one reason my cases remain matching in capacity).
For those who think FL sizing is a shortcut; it's not always. Not in the long run.
Here I'm talkin about actual FL sizing(not body/bushing sizing) and not FL sizing with a custom die(which could be excellent). Just off the shelf FL dies, which lead to continual trimming.
These, I will never use.
And running extreme pressure loads?
Everything comes with a price, and I chose to stay away from this.
I know these loads work around other tough issues, and if I were a PB BR competitor, I'd go this route also.
But with larger cartridges the price returns more pain than gain.
