Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
Articles
Latest reviews
Author list
Classifieds
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Difference Between Button/Cut Rifling?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="J E Custom" data-source="post: 348775" data-attributes="member: 2736"><p>I hate to wade of into this because it is just a matter of personal preference. But maybe I can</p><p>shed a little more light on this subject with out offending anyone.</p><p></p><p>The evolution of rifling starts with Hammer forged smooth bores.</p><p></p><p>Then next came hammer forged rifling. Some were hexagonal some were octagonal and some</p><p> even had some form of rifling. Hammer forging was a process that used a mandrel with the shape</p><p>and twist desired that was placed in a tube that had been heated to forging temperatures and</p><p>hammered down until it fit the mandrel as it was pulled through the barrel.</p><p></p><p>This was not very precision and the barrel then had to be hand lapped to true it up. Also after</p><p>lapping bullets molds had to be sized for that particular bore diameter for any kind of accuracy.</p><p>(It was normal to get a bullet mold with the rifle that was hand fitted by the rifle maker.</p><p></p><p>Next came the cut rifling . In the beginning it was cut 1 grove at a time with multiple passes</p><p>for each groove. there were 2,3 and 4 grove in the beginning because of the time and number</p><p>of passes needed to cut multiple groves 2 or 3 were normal and the depth of the groves was</p><p>deeper because of the use of lead cast bullets.</p><p>The process has not changed much except the use of multiple cutters and shallow groves</p><p>due to the use of jacketed bullets.</p><p></p><p>The really fine cut rifling years ago was done by hand and very expensive because of the time</p><p>it took to produce one of these barrels by hand. These were the barrels that the bench rest shooters had to have in order to be competitive and were the best at the time.</p><p></p><p>Next came the buttoned rifling and at first they were plagued with problems. And became very</p><p>secretive about there fix to the problems and still are.(who can blame them if they spent the </p><p>time and money to make good barrels and don't want to help there competitors).</p><p></p><p>All of the different rifling methods started with problems and these problems forced them to</p><p>improve the process or get out of the business.</p><p></p><p>I have used barrels rifled with all three types of rifling and if they are done right they will perform</p><p>well and each have there place. I have also looked at the different types of rifling with a</p><p>magnified bore scope and was shocked by the finish of some that were premium barrels.</p><p></p><p>With this said I have settled on custom barrels based on many things,trueness between </p><p>centers(Constance straightness of finished barrels), and trueness of outside diameter to bore,</p><p>Trueness of bore diameter from end to end, internal finish of bore and the lack of fouling</p><p>that a barrel does barrel to barrel.</p><p></p><p>Every Now and then you will find a barrel that just exceeds all of your expectations and it may</p><p>be a brand of barrel that others have had problems with or be one of many of the same brand.</p><p>But it does happen and even the barrel makers can't explain it (If they could they would make</p><p>them all that way and corner the market).</p><p></p><p>A good example of this was when Hart finally figured out how to produce the best buttoned</p><p>barrels out there made out of stainless. Almost everyone that was a serious shooter shot </p><p>Hart SS barrels .Even the factories that needed quality barrels in stainless for there new</p><p>magnums used Hart barrels.</p><p></p><p>There was a question about the life of a buttoned barrel compared to a cut barrel and there</p><p>is an advantage in the wear abilities of a buttoned barrel because it produces a forged effect</p><p>on the inside of the bore and this makes the bore more resistant to wear.</p><p></p><p>So based on "MY" experience and the barrel to barrel consistency I have found that Lilja</p><p>barrels meet my requirements better than any other barrels and the other brands are my</p><p>second choice no matter how the rifling is done. </p><p></p><p>Over the years I have changed barrel makers several times for one reason or the other</p><p>(Cost , quality , accuracy and customer service) and until I find something better Lilja</p><p>will be my barrel of choice.</p><p></p><p>I have not found a single Lilja barrel that would not shoot under 1/2 MOA and most have shot</p><p>under 3/10 ths of a MOA.</p><p></p><p>Just my opinion for what its worth (And no I don't have any lilja stock)</p><p></p><p>J E CUSTOM</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="J E Custom, post: 348775, member: 2736"] I hate to wade of into this because it is just a matter of personal preference. But maybe I can shed a little more light on this subject with out offending anyone. The evolution of rifling starts with Hammer forged smooth bores. Then next came hammer forged rifling. Some were hexagonal some were octagonal and some even had some form of rifling. Hammer forging was a process that used a mandrel with the shape and twist desired that was placed in a tube that had been heated to forging temperatures and hammered down until it fit the mandrel as it was pulled through the barrel. This was not very precision and the barrel then had to be hand lapped to true it up. Also after lapping bullets molds had to be sized for that particular bore diameter for any kind of accuracy. (It was normal to get a bullet mold with the rifle that was hand fitted by the rifle maker. Next came the cut rifling . In the beginning it was cut 1 grove at a time with multiple passes for each groove. there were 2,3 and 4 grove in the beginning because of the time and number of passes needed to cut multiple groves 2 or 3 were normal and the depth of the groves was deeper because of the use of lead cast bullets. The process has not changed much except the use of multiple cutters and shallow groves due to the use of jacketed bullets. The really fine cut rifling years ago was done by hand and very expensive because of the time it took to produce one of these barrels by hand. These were the barrels that the bench rest shooters had to have in order to be competitive and were the best at the time. Next came the buttoned rifling and at first they were plagued with problems. And became very secretive about there fix to the problems and still are.(who can blame them if they spent the time and money to make good barrels and don't want to help there competitors). All of the different rifling methods started with problems and these problems forced them to improve the process or get out of the business. I have used barrels rifled with all three types of rifling and if they are done right they will perform well and each have there place. I have also looked at the different types of rifling with a magnified bore scope and was shocked by the finish of some that were premium barrels. With this said I have settled on custom barrels based on many things,trueness between centers(Constance straightness of finished barrels), and trueness of outside diameter to bore, Trueness of bore diameter from end to end, internal finish of bore and the lack of fouling that a barrel does barrel to barrel. Every Now and then you will find a barrel that just exceeds all of your expectations and it may be a brand of barrel that others have had problems with or be one of many of the same brand. But it does happen and even the barrel makers can't explain it (If they could they would make them all that way and corner the market). A good example of this was when Hart finally figured out how to produce the best buttoned barrels out there made out of stainless. Almost everyone that was a serious shooter shot Hart SS barrels .Even the factories that needed quality barrels in stainless for there new magnums used Hart barrels. There was a question about the life of a buttoned barrel compared to a cut barrel and there is an advantage in the wear abilities of a buttoned barrel because it produces a forged effect on the inside of the bore and this makes the bore more resistant to wear. So based on "MY" experience and the barrel to barrel consistency I have found that Lilja barrels meet my requirements better than any other barrels and the other brands are my second choice no matter how the rifling is done. Over the years I have changed barrel makers several times for one reason or the other (Cost , quality , accuracy and customer service) and until I find something better Lilja will be my barrel of choice. I have not found a single Lilja barrel that would not shoot under 1/2 MOA and most have shot under 3/10 ths of a MOA. Just my opinion for what its worth (And no I don't have any lilja stock) J E CUSTOM [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Difference Between Button/Cut Rifling?
Top