Die recommendations

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Ryan55555, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. Ryan55555

    Ryan55555 Well-Known Member

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    I am in the market for a set of dies for my new 7WSM.

    How much better are the Competition Seater dies from Redding than the others?

    Any other suggestions?

    Will be loading 180 Berger bullets.

    Thanks,

    Ryan
     
  2. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    Although I have Redding competition seating dies for my three rifles, I don't think they are any better than the Forrster. Having the dial on top so that you can make .001 adjustments is nice. Once you use them, you won't want to use anything else.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010

  3. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    Your question is understandable but impossible to answer; there is no certain and clear-cut difference at all.

    Where the Forster/Redding seaters have an edge over others is design, not tolerances. Actually, if you have a conventional seater that has tolerances stacked toward perfection it can do as well as any. But most don't, so the F&R seaters full length body and bullet sleeves hold everything in alignment somewhat better before seating begins and that usually does a better job for concentricity than those without a full sleeve. Short sliding sleeve seaters (Hornady/RCBS) can make them a little easier to load with but I've never seen any evidence they load better than others.

    Comparing how much difference the full body/bullet alignment sleeves make involves not only the tolerances of both types of dies but the quality of the case necks AND the skill of the reloader. Loading high grade ammo can't be bought in a tool box of any color or cost, it must be assembled by a high quality reloader and that only comes with time and study! Bottom line, all we can say for sure is the F & R seaters do as well as can be done with threaded dies. Other so-called 'competiton' dies aren't in the same league, in fact they don't seem to do any better work on average than conventional seater dies.

    Micrometer heads do nothing for the quality of the ammo, they are only a user convienence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  4. Moosetracker

    Moosetracker Well-Known Member

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    My suggestion for optimum utility and minimal cost:

    Lee Collet Die
    Redding Body Die
    Forster benchrest or ultra Seater
     
  5. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    save some money and buy the Forster seater. It's better than the Redding at about 2/3rds the price
    gary
     
  6. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Buy an Arbor Press and Wilson Seating Die.
     
  7. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    Ditto to Moose, #4. But you will need a very good rifle and load plus be a very good shot to ever see any difference from standard dies.
     
  8. dirtball

    dirtball Well-Known Member

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    After trying a LOT of different dies and combinations of dies, for those calibers that are "standard", non wildcat, I use a Redding type S FULL LENGTH bushing die, and a Forster micrometer seating die. I used to do the Neck sizer and body die, but since I end up full length sizing to set back the shoulder just enough to allow the round to chamber without forcing it, the body die just adds an additional step.

    Dave
     
  9. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    The Wilson seaters are very good, but do not always produce exact OAL's. Same with the Forster, which I have in several calibers. The Redding Competition is a straight line seater, like the Wilson and Forster, and does a good job. I prefer the Redding because I want my OAL's to be spot on, and in that regard they are the best.

    BTW, I have tried the Sinclair micrometer top on the Wilson dies and it is just not accurate. Don't wast your money.
     
  10. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    The only seater I've seen better than a Forster is a Wilson. The Forster has about half the backlash in the micrometer dial than a Redding, and much better repeatability. Awhile back I did 100 .223 rounds with 55 grain Vmax bullets in them. Cases were neck sized with a Wilson die. The base of each case was stoned flat. I have a habit of checking the over all length at the ogive on every third round on a gauge line I keep a record for each barrel (after awhile I'll move up to every ten rounds, but still check often). All loaded rounds were less than .0015" variation. The same cases loaded in a Wilson seater will usually run +/-.00075". I have loaded lots that all held within a window of .001" many times. The Forster seater (which one? .222, .223, 22-250, 6mm etc) will always have less than .0025" runout on the bullet ogive when checking case runout, and I've done lots that ran about .0015" TIR (that's roughly .00075" off center). All measurments are taken off an Interrapid indicator as I no longer use gear and rack indicators to gauge anything. I also own a few Redding seaters and the others as well. The Redding seaters are very nice, and the numbers are easier to read in my old eyes. But not for their price tag. Taken apart, they are nothing but a copy of a Forster, and of course very good quality. Now why the backlash difference; I don't know exactly. But it's rather consistent from die to die. Does it matter much? Not really if you keep a log, and start out right. I've found thru the years that the greatest seating errors almost always come from poor case prep. If the case has run out the bullet will at least have that much if not double that.
    gary
     
  11. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    I use two Sinclair tops (the old ones that were made of carbon steel with numbers that were hard to read) on Wilson dies with good results. I did end up reworking one seater plug because of the way it met the bullet's ogive). I still think the best way to get top accuracy with a Wilson die is to seat with shims rather than the micrometer head. (you can buy arbor shim packs that are a fraction of the price the other guys get for the ones intended for a seater die). In my 22 centerfire guns, I like the bullet to either be .002" off the lands or in most cases just touching the lands.
    gary
     
  12. MSLRHunter

    MSLRHunter Well-Known Member

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    I use the redding competition seater die and love it. I agree that the die itself is not better than the others, but that the micrometer adjustments on the top of the die allows for precise depth changes to the bulleet. I use several different bullets in one of my redding dies and it is very easy to dial in the exact seating depth that you need with a different bullett
     
  13. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    The Wilson in-line seater using the Arbor Press is about as good as you can get. Know many BR shooters including HOF Shooters that use them exclusively. I buy one that is fairly close in dimension and have Speedy (HOF Shooter World Record Holder) finish it with the finish reamer. Do not know what testing you have done nor what equipment you have used to make the determination that the Wilson is not a good product. I suspect that your measuring process is flawed.

    The internet is a good place to get all kinds of information some good and some bad.
     
  14. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    If your remark was directed to me, I use Davidson nose pieces and base attached to a Mitutoyo caliper in measuring OAL to the ogive. My measuring process is not flawed. I shoot IBS too and have some expertise with reloading 6 PPC, 6 BR and 30 BR. My experience is that the Wilson seaters are not uniform, but neither are the Forster nor Redding. All of them are off a few thou. BUT - the Redding micrometer competition seater makes it very easy to seat deeper. I initially seat my bullets to about .005" over the desired depth. Each round is then placed in a loading block, the lines being separated by .001" each. I then work them down .001" at a time, until all are exctly spot on. My point is that its easier (and faster) to do this with the Redding competition seater than with the others. Skip Otto's shims for the wilson dies are OK, I just hate to keep changing them.