CVA Accura V2

Discussion in 'Muzzleloader Hunting' started by SidecarFlip, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Been aqgonizing and contemplating buying the CVA switch barrel but they are hard to find and I'd have to scope each barrel so I went today and got an AccuraV2 27" barrel in realtree at Cabelas.

    I had the points and then some so it was a wash.

    I need a scope yet. No point in putting on a Viper/Leupold like my centerfires, besides, I want/would like a camo scope to match the stock. I'm thinking along the lines of a Nikon in 3-9 x 50 but I'm open to suggestions. High turrets or low and MOA or MIL.

    Not sure if I need side parallelax and all that in as much as it's a 250 yard maximum rifle.

    I also need some input on powder and a good sabot. Already have boxes of 209 primers for reloading shotgun shells.

    I know these things are dirty shooters but what is the cleaning frequency and will wipeout or Hoppes 9 work?

    I'm a newbie as you can tell. First one (smokepole).

    Won't be doing anything with it until next season anyway. Might as well get it set up, sighted in and ready to find a bambi.
     
  2. FrontierGander

    FrontierGander Well-Known Member

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    Scopes:
    Bushnell DOA 250
    Nikon Prostaff

    My favorite that ive used for 3 years now is a Konuspro 3-10x44. 15,000+ rounds through that scope and no troubles at all. Super thin cross hairs which i prefer.

    Cleaning that gun IMO is extremely important. Most guys just wipe down the outside and clean the bore and hims ready to go huntin!

    Scroll down and look for the Camo Accura V2 - Cleaning your new muzzle loader Part 1 and Part 2. I do a deep cleaning to make sure all the shavings are out and most importantly, that stock bolt IS tight.
    Ganders Muzzle Loading Blog: Muzzle Loading How To Videos

    Cleaning, if its holy black, T7, pyrodex or american pioneer, hot soapy water is the best cleaner to use. If you are worried about plastic, lead, copper build up, you can use a product for that AFTER you clean the bore out with the hot soapy water.

    I HIGHLY recommend Blackhorn209, it IS the best sub on the market today. No need to clean between shots, it does not need it.

    Also order either the Blackhorn209 breech plug from CVA Or Western Powders. Both companies offer their own version, the WP plug is a bit more expensive but it does come up a breech plug cleaning tool.


    Heres a tune up tip that a lot of folk have enjoyed my work on. It is a great way to seal up primer blow by and keep the nickle finish on the frame rather than being blasted off by primer blow by and stained an ugly black/gray color.
    Ganders Muzzle Loading Blog: CVA Headspace Adjustment Shims

    Safety warning just to allow you to understand the importance of knowing what can happen if adjusted to much.
    Ganders Muzzle Loading Blog: CVA Muzzleloader Head Space Adjustment Caution

    That should help get you started gun)
     

  3. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    I'd take the Nikon over the Bushnell. IMO much better glass. I have the Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x50 on two rifles and am very pleased I went with Nikon. Personally I don't recommend multi-reticle scopes on muzzleloaders. Although they are a good marketing tool for the manufacturers to sell more scopes. Muzzleloaders can be extremely finniky, even of the same model. Learning where a bullet hits at a given range with a muzzleloader, is much more important than which "dot" to use, let alone determining range, adjusting the scope to the proper setting and all the while hoping the deer remains in place at that range.

    I see you're also from Michigan and you know how long a deer may stand still while you're trying to make adjustments to your scope so that the "dots" are correct. Many other Michigan muzzleloader shooters have found that its much easier and they can be more accurate, shoot easier and faster with just a single crosshair.
     
  4. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I am. I'm at one end of the state, you are at the other. My advantage (or disadvantage is I'm 2 miles from Cabelas....lol

    I'm an out west hunter for the most part. I have property just south of Big Rapids that I hunt on with a centerfire (308 Savage) but the smoke pole intrigues me. I'm a firn believer in one shot and make it a good shot, even with a centerfire. I very seldom have the magazines loaded, usually one in the chamber and a couple in my pocket.

    My hunt partner (also out west) has the CVA V2 and I've shot his before and I like the feel of the rifle. It's a bit nose heavy compared the my 308 but it feels comfortable for offhand shooting. I'm so used to a centerfire but not too old to adapt to something else, especially when that else is a legal firearm to hunt deer down here. In SE Michigan you can hunt with a bow, handgun, shotgun or muzzleloader, no centerfire rifle. I use a handgun (44magnum S&W with a scope) but the effective range is a bit short. The CVA gives me more range and the longer tube makes shot placement more accurate.

    I see I don't have to go broke getting an optic this time. I'm used to spending better than a grand fror a scope, thats refreshing. The last VX4 I bought was almost 1500.

    My hunt partner has a Nikon camo on his and it appeared (to me) that the glass and resolution was well within the capabilities of the rifle. This isn't a 500 yard gun like my 308 or a 1500 + yard gun like my 338 and it appears to be fairly economical to shoot. 308's arent bad when reloading but 338's even reloading can cost a bundle.

    I'm understanding that unlike my medium to long, long range rifles, I won't be clicking in elevation or windage but zeroing the scope and using the holdovers for distance? Is that a correct assumption? 250 yards is a cake shot for my centerfires, I typically zero my scopes at 300 yards.

    That brings me to the next question and that is, whichever scope I mount, I assume that I need to zero at 100 yards and I also presume the parallelax is pre set at 100 as well.

    All my scopes presently are side parallelax adjustable. One less knob might not be all bad....

    Finally, because I have a natural tendency to cant my rifles to the right, do I need a scope level. I have them on all my centerfire rifles and the CVA came with a scope mount attached. Do I need to lap it prior to mounting the scope (SOP on my centerfires).

    Lots of questions I realize. This is a new ballgame for me.
     
  5. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    My trips to Cabela's are very rare, unless it when I'm visiting family down below. However I spend a crazy amount of money for muzzleloader bullets on line from them, which my wife reminds me of quite often.

    With the one piece mounts, I've never had to lap. The traditional 100yd zero works well for most MI hunters but, I zero mine for 150yds. My early firearm season shots, through Thanksgiving, will be 100yds or less. No problem there with a 150 zero. But after Thanksgiving I'm able to start hunting property where shots will most generally be 150 or further, thus the reason for the 150yd zero. I shoot enough target at 200yds to be very confident at that range with 2 to 2.5" groups.

    From a zero at 150yds, I have 5" of drop at 200. Piece of cake as far as how to hold for a shot at that range. Absolutely unnecessary to have a multi-reticle scope. I only shoot Barnes bullets, which perform perfectly and are 100% reliable. I load 75grs BY WEIGHT of BH209 and a Barnes 250gr TMZ, ignited by a CCI209M primer. My Pro Hunter will shoot a maximum load of 84grs WEIGHT of BH209 accurately but, I don't care for the increased recoil and with the 75grs by weight I still get pass throughs at 200yds. Many shooters report approximately a 3" difference in POI with a 10gr increase (weight) of BH209.

    When I mount my scopes I use a level for mounting and that's it. I guess I just shoot it so much that any canting, if any, is never noticeable. My crosshairs and what they're settled on takes up my entire concentration. Everything else is just an extension of my body. I took two deer during our muzzleloader season, one at 168yds and the other at 193 and both dropped within 4 jumps.

    Good luck, have fun and be safe. This stuff is fun. Shoot it often and develop that sweet load that shoots great from it.
     
  6. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Here's where I am/we are, in as much as there are 2 V2's involved, mine which is new and Tom's (one of my hunting partners) who has had his for a while.

    The Internet and this forum are great stores of valuable information. Been reading about the blowby from the primer nor seating close enough to the firing pin retainer plus and allowing gas to escape. I also read that CVA/BPI had a shim fix. Of course no one has the shims available, not even CVA/BPI so I'm going to grind custom shims on the surface grinder to shim out both rifles for a slight interference fit. Tom has already experienced a siezed firing pin from blowby. Hopefully that can be fixed.

    I've also read the CVA has had some issues with incomplete burn/misfires using Blackhorn and offers a recessed breech plug, I bought 2 from BPI direct, one for each rifle. I'm planning on taking the stock plug and using it with white hots or possibly modifying it by enlarging the flash hole in 0.005" increments to see what effect the bigger diameter has on burn rates, accuracy and velocity and I may machine a pluf with a recess myself like the retrofit BPI plug has.

    We are looking at either Thor or Precision Engineering non saboted bullets as well as the Barnes TMZ's for increasing effective range. They will never be long range rifles but I have to say they are a cheap date compared to my centerfires and I can shoot them down here during deer season. I can't shoot a centerfire unless it's a pistol.

    I got a Nikon 3-9 BDC reticle in Realtree, the exact scope that Tom has. I wanted to make the guns as similar as possible so we can exchange or have either available for a hunt because we don't always hunt together.

    I had a bit of an issue with the factory suppled and mounted) scope mount. I checked the mount to bore alignment, clamping in a 3 foot length of centerless ground and normalized drill rod and the mount was within 0.010 parallel to the centerline of the bore but the ring upper half wasn't concentric with the lower half of the mount so I had to lap the ring halves with lapping compound and bar. I also sequentially pulled each mounting screw, applied a dab of threadlocker and retorqued them to 25 inch pounds. I clamped the rings at 25 as well after levelling the scope. I have to bench/bore sight it yet and go start playing with it and the chronograph.

    Gonna be fun.....
     
  7. FrontierGander

    FrontierGander Well-Known Member

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    no need to modify the breech plug for whitehot pellets.
     
  8. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I knew you'd catch that and btw, I really enjoy your video's and your knowledge is a vast storehouse..... now that I've inflated your ego.....:)

    I realize the white hots lay on top of the plug in the short recess but I bought a box for fooling with. Thats it. We'll be igniting Blackhorn exclusively in the field and I'll have some extra plugs laying around to modify.

    What I'm curious about is what effect opening the flash hole will have on ignition and powder burn. It seems to me that the primer ignition end face is appreciably larger than the flash hole so why not open it up incrementally. One, it would relieve the back pressure (that actually causes the blowback of gasses and the subsequent blackening of the firing pin face and frame) and two, would allow a better flame travel to the powder charge. The only thing I could see as a limiting factor would be average grain size of 209. That would not be a factor with white hots as they are solidified.

    I can machine the plugs any way I want to, in fact, I can modify the firearm, I own a machine shop so it's not a big thing with me. Between opening the flashole and shimming the pin retainer to the primer face (you refer to as headspace) I'm thinking that relieving the pressure should allow less of an interference fit between the pin retainer and the primer face and still negate the blowback.

    I want to know the determining factor in the flashole dimension or is it an 'all around' determination?

    I think this is actually going to be some relatively inexpensive fun compared to my big centerfire rifles......

    ..............Just picking your brain a bit.....

    While on the subject, what about the Thor Bullets and the Precision Engineering non saboted bullets? Opinion, conjecture? My go to will still be the Barnes saboted polymer tipped projectiles for around here. The non-saboted projectiles will be for out west.

    We are looking for extended knock down range in the vicinity of 250-300 yards, possibly better, limited by optics of course. I'm not going to put a NF or a Viper or a Leupy Mark 4 on a smoke pole, at least not just yet. The rifles are tubed well enough, Bagara is a premier barrel maker. The limiting factor I see is the projectiles and rate of ignition as it equates to muzzle velocity and bullet weight. The higher the exit velocity the more tolerant projectile weight becomes. The faster it flies, the less gravity impacts the projectile and less bullet drop. I interchanged bullet and projectile but they are both the same in this discussion...... I also realize the twist plays an important factor in stability and too much velocity imparts too fast a spin and can cause the bullet to fly apart......

    See, I get technical pretty quick and I haven't even cycled the firearm yet.....:D
     
  9. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Put in the Blackhorn Breechplug last night after cleaning the tube after disassembling the entire rifle and cleaning all the grease and whatnot out of the action. My plug came with the insertion tool so I applied a bit of grease to the threads (I'm not fond of never-sieze, it seems to wind up all over me for some reason), installed the plug and cranked it down tight with the tool, then loosened it back up and finger tightened it. I'm waiting for the Thor FMJ's to arrive with the insertion tool and then we shall see what it will do or not do.

    I still have to shim the retainer before I fire it. That will entail precision grinding a number of sized washers to fit. No biggie.

    At least with the current run on tuns and ammo, the BP stuff remains untouched for the most part. Fingers crossed on that. Was talikng to another customer in the store and he remarked that this new breed of gun buyer don't have any idea about muzzle loading. Fine with me.
     
  10. FrontierGander

    FrontierGander Well-Known Member

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    put only about .002" of crush fit on the primer, it makes the action easier to close without having to snap it shut firmly. gun)
     
  11. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Thank you young man, I'll set it at 2 thousands....and you are right about primer height differences. I bought some Federal 209's originally and CCI 209's the other day and the Federals are about 4.5 thousands shorter than the CCI's. Thats a lot. Don't mean anything in a shotshell but means a lot in a muzzleloader as fare as blowback.

    I begs to ask, have you ever enlarged the flash hole and if you did, what were the results? I have extra breechplugs now so enlarging the through hole looks to be an interesting modifiaction, if, it don't adversely impact anything...

    Opinion please.
     
  12. FrontierGander

    FrontierGander Well-Known Member

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    back before i figured out how to seal up the primer blow by, we thought it was the breech plugs flash hole/channel that was causing it. We'd drill out the flash hole to .035" and that helped a LOT. Once i figured out that sealed up the blow by "heat" that improved things even more. We no longer lost a lot of heat/gasses due to loose primer fit, when we adjust the head space properly. Lets face it, if a car has a burnt valve, we're losing pressure, consistency in detonation. Same thing is true with a breech plug and primer fit. Seal it up and its going to operate a lot more efficiently. Clean up in the frame is no longer needed as well.
     
  13. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    Most of the drilling of flash holes has always been related to the CVA breech plugs, to make them capable of shooting BH209. Although some have drilled them out larger, .031" was the recommendation. CVA and Western fixed the issue with replacement breech plugs.

    One also has to recognize that the flash holes will enlarge and wear themselves if the rifle is shot a lot. I have to replace breech plugs quite often. Also realize that opening up the flash hole to large, can cause to much pressure to be sent back through the plug. Back in the day before inlines, there were a few guys that thought drilling out a nipple would increase ignition. Countless numbers of those shooters found themselves in the emergency room getting sewed up, after the hammer was blown back into their hand.
     
  14. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I apreciate the input. I figured if small was good, larger would be better. Your experience is invaluable for me. I'll go with the 2 thousands crush and leave it at that. Too bad I can't find the shim washers anywhere. BPI is continually showing not is stock.

    I certainly don't want to get wacked by the hammer.....lol I remarked to my wife that unlike my centerfire bolt rifles, the CVA has no side ports to allow pressure to escape if an overpressure condition exists. Either out the business end or out the ignition end......

    I'll just get suitable diameter washers and do some surface grinding.

    The Thor bullets should be in this weekend btw.