Cutting edge bullets barrel rifling damage???

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by tacsniper0888, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. tacsniper0888

    tacsniper0888 Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys. A whole back LRH member longtimelongranger turned me onto cutting edge bullets D62 bullet. I ordered some and am waiting to load them until my gunsmith gets finished fitting my new PT&G fluted bolt to my Sendero action and rereams it to the proper depth for proper headspace so I can measure the overall length to figure out where to start off seating my bullets. Anyway the gunsmith I deal with has been gunsmithing for forty years and the shop owner had been in the industry for fifty years and he told me that monolithic solids like the cutting edge bullets would eat the rifling right out of my barrel! He said he has rarely seen a barrel shoot more than a hundred rounds of monolithic solid copper bullets that wasn't shot out! He said with mine being a factory barrel I could keep shooting conventional bullets, I.e. nosler, Berger for years before rebarreling or I could shoot about fifty or so copper monolithics through it and need a new barrel. Surely this isn't do?! They look like precision high quality projectiles! Is this just old wisdom from back in his day since he's so old and reluctant to change or is this true? After all his work and blue printing and trying my action I don't want to throw all that money away in fifty trigger pulls!!! Thanks guys and have a great day.
     
  2. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Based on what exactly? How would they be any harder on a barrel than a conventional leadcore bullet? I could see some merit if the projectiles were tungsten or something crazy hard in a standard configuration instead of a bore rider.....

    I shoot nothing but Barnes in more than one of my rifles, they are by definition monolithic bullets. I can't tell you how many hundred .30 cal Barnes i've put down the factory barrel of my Lazzeroni Patriot but, It's a LOT. It still shoots great.

    IIRC the CEB's are machined from pure copper correct? A material that is actually softer than the guilding metal used in "conventional" bullet jackets. If the material you are shooting is softer, how can it cause more damage?

    I don't know what his basis for that statement is but I sure hope LTLR can tell us how many of these he's shot, i'll be willing to wager is a good bit more than 100.

    Very interesting.....




    t
     

  3. tacsniper0888

    tacsniper0888 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I'm wondering outlaw! I mean this guy knows his stuff as far as machining and gunsmithing goes. I'd be willing to say he's one of the best in the country!!! But maybe he's just not up to date on the new technology out there as far as reloading and reloading components. I surely hope to find the true answer! Come on in here longtimelongranger!!!! Let us delve into the depths of your knowledge! Again, thanks guys. And don't forget to thank a vet, after all tomorrow is 9/11!!!
     
  4. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That is about the biggest crock of BS I have ever heard. I have a few hundred rounds through several rifles. Just this weekend I checked the bores on several of my rifles as I do each year. They are pristine. The past two weeks I have burned up several pounds of powder with these bullets.

    These are also the most accurate bullets I have ever shot. Here are a few groups from last week with the C21 180 grain Cutting Edge. 1.7" at 700 yards, 4.2" at 950 yards. 8.8" at 1100 yards. These are out of three different rifles.

    For guys wanting a firm BC the C21 180 grain is between .61 and .62 in the three rifles I have been shooting it in. The 200 grain CE while testing in the Mcmillan Outdoorsman test rifle hit in the .64's out to 1100 yards while getting ready for the caribou hunt.

    I pushed the 180 grain to 3520 fps out of a 300 RUM 28" barrel but settled on an accuracy load of 3460 fps with 86.1 grains Retumbo. My 300 winchester hit an accuracy load with 85.5 grains magpro at 3330 fps.

    The ability of these bullets to get 75-100 fps more velocity in my rifles than the lead core is a major boost. A .615 bc at 3460 fps out of a 300 RUM or over 3300 fps out of a 300 winchester is way fun to shoot.

    I think you will have fun shooting the 225's. Let me know which cartridge you are shooting and I will get you some starting loads. I have shot the 225's in most popular 338's. Best group was a 4.63" at 1000 yards out of my 338-300 RUM.
     
  5. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    That is CRAZY accuracy LTLR, fantastic shooting. I am now beginning to run the 130's in my 6.5WSM, I have high hopes.:) Just put the first Dozen down range. Thanks for shedding some clarity here.


    T
     
  6. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The 130's did well in my 264 STW. I loose seat a bullet and chamber it to find the exact oal where it makes contact. Then I back off 25 thousanths. They should shoot good between .02-.03 off the contact point. I have not taken any animals with the small caliber CE bullets yet. The 180 and 200 grain 30 cal and the 338 cals have all been one shot kills.
     
  7. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    I ordered my reamer to the specifications set by CEB for this bullet. With any luck I will be able to post some LR kills with the WSM after Oct 1 (when our season starts). I'm feeling pretty lucky at this point, as I work my load & increase my powder charge, the groups are shrinking. lightbulb Thank god !

    I just got my MagnetoSpeed in the mail Friday, I will chronograph when I start to see the results I am looking for.



    Good hunting. gun)

    t
     
  8. Rocky Mountain

    Rocky Mountain Well-Known Member

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    It sadens me to see yet again another gunsmith pushing is own opinion onto others shooter with out having any proof that what he is saying is even tue.
    find another gunsmith that wont fill your mind with BS
     
  9. Augustus

    Augustus Well-Known Member

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    My My, I don't know where to start. If your smith don't know any more about building rifles than he does about solids, you had best find someone else. I have seen a lot of unwashed BS concerning solids, I do believe this has to be one of the the most egregious examples I have seen lately. This ranks right up there with some of GS Customs advertised BCs.
     
  10. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Outlaw, How far are you off the lands with your special cut throat? These bullets like a jump into the lands from what I have seen. I am getting some very good groups out of my wby freebore rifles they like so much jump. The seal tight band is where I get my contact at the end of the chamber. That is where I measure the .02-.03. I do not know how far I am off the lands.
     
  11. Edd

    Edd Well-Known Member

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    What is the freebore they recommend with that bullet?
     
  12. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    Well well, guess I'll have to throw away my Hart barreled 270 that's ONLY had BARNES bullets through it's tube since 2003 despite that it is still a tack-driver.

    Perhaps the gunsmith in question is referring to the banded solids for dangerous game? Regardless, his blanket statement couldn't be more wrong. If it was true, Barnes would be out of business.
     
  13. tacsniper0888

    tacsniper0888 Well-Known Member

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    Hi derek. Yes he may be. He did say something about dangerous game shooters practice with non copper solid bullets and only shoot copper solids at an animal cuz they ruin the barrel. May been what he was referring to. And longtimelongranger I'm shooting the D62's in my Remington 700 Sendero action .338 Win mag. 26" barrel 1-10" twist. 3.656" max overall length touching lands. The starting load data is much appreciated.
     
  14. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I just set up an accuracy load in my Tikka last week. 76 grains RE-19 with the 225 D-62 at 3.704" oal. I use a cci 250 primer. That is .025" off the seal tight band contact. I have no idea how far off the lands that is. Out of the 24" tikka barrel it averages 2992 fps and will shoot under 10" at 1000 yards. That really lights up the 338 winny getting a .64 bc around 3000 fps. CE bullets do not like to be seated on the lands. They like a jump from what I have seen. Same with the Barnes bullets. They are extremely accurate with a little jump.