Cutting Edge Bullet Velocity

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Long Time Long Ranger, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I held this one back until I had sufficient data to prove one way or another and not just an anomaly. After shooting quite a few rifles this morning with Cutting Edge bullets plus all the other testing previously I have found they get approximately 75-100 fps more velocity than standard lead core bullets of the same weight. At first I thought it may be an anomaly with limited data. But now I have quite a bit of data with the 225 grain 338 bullets and the 180 grain 30 caliber bullets. Several different rifles loaded with known accuracy loads for lead core bullets all chronographed 75-100 fps faster on average with the same weight Cutting Edge bullets. No, I do not own stock in Cutting edge and I can show reciepts where I paid for the bullets, not freebies.

    Also it seems I have less pressure with the CE bullets than with lead core bullets at the same powder charge. I have loaded beyond my max with lead core bullets without pressure signs with the CE bullets.

    These are just some quirks I am finding out testing these new bullets. So far I have shot them in 338 SIN, 338-378 wby, 338 Lapua, 338-300 RUM, 338 RUM, 340 wby and 300 winchester. I feel sufficient data that I can start mentioning some of these quirks.

    As far as listed BC. I can guarantee with my rifles the 225 grain M62 bullet is at least the listed .64 BC. I have tested it out to 1000 yards on several occasions and out of my rifles shoots flatter than the listed .64. I shot the 180 grain C21 bullet this morning at 1000 yards and after one test it was definitely the listed .6 at 3376 fps.

    I know some guys have been reporting velocity gains with the GS custom bullets which are also lathe turned and they advertise this on the gs website also. I shot some GS 177 grain 30 caliber bullets over 3500 fps out of my 300 RUM which was more than 50 fps faster than the lead core bullets I had been shooting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  2. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    LTLR,

    As I understand it - strictly from reading and researching on the various web sources - these lathe turned monolithic bullets are manufactured with a raised rib or ribs, which serve to seal gases between the bullet and the bore. The lands of the rifling only engage the raised driving band(s), which reduces the bullet to bore friction.

    It's taking the Barnes TSX to the extreme. If Barnes removed all of the full-bore diameter sidewalls of their bullets, and only left very narrow strips to engage the rifling, then the bullet to bore friction would be dramatically decreased, resulting in lower pressures with equal powder charges. To get back up to full working pressures, additional powder can now be added, resulting in even higher MVs. It's like increasing case capacity without increasing case capacity. Due to the lowered bullet to bore friction, additional powder can be added without exceeding safe pressures - driving the MV up somewhat. My analysis and thoughts on the matter...

    But the increased velocities you're getting from the 180 grain CEs in your Tikka T3 are jaw-dropping. Please bust a caribou or two with the Tikka and report back on terminal on-game performance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011

  3. RockZ

    RockZ Well-Known Member

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    phorwath is right on.
    I tested some lathe turned mono bullets like the ones Augustus has mentioned and the reduced friction with the driving bands as compared to the full bearing surface of traditional bullets is significant.
    You get a very good gas seal as well as much less friction and pressure so you can step on them a bit more.
    You also are not getting the obtrusion of the traditional lead core bullets.
     
  4. RDM416

    RDM416 Well-Known Member

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    LTLR,

    Thanks for keeping us updated on your results with the CE bullets. I got in a box of the 225s and the 252s to try in my Khan, but have not yet loaded any. I have been dealing with serious medical condition for the past month and probably still have another month to go before I will be able to get back to shooting. Any load data you have for the 225s or 252s in 338/378 or improved versions would be appreciated as my load development time is going to limited for getting ready for hunts this fall.
     
  5. Augustus

    Augustus Well-Known Member

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    For those of you that are interested, I have tested four versions of the Cutting Edge 375s. The EXP 1 is a 375 gr. hollow point, the EXP 2 is a 400 gr. hollow point, the EXP 3 is a 377 gr. solid point and the EXP 4 is a 402 gr. solid point. My pick of the litter are the EXP 1 and 2. The ogive on these transition into the bore rider more smoothly than the EXP 3 and 4, the 1and 2 seemed to like my barrel better although all of them shot very well out to a mile.

    These bullets gave accuracy at 100 yds you would have to see to believe. Dont ever let anyone tell you big long boat-tail bullets wont group at 100yds. Granted these were fired from a 6.5 exit twist; however, another individual is reporting similar results from an 8 twist. Another individual is reporting very good results with the 350 gr. from a 10 twist.

    The design of these bullets are fairly conservative when compared to the other solids I have tested. The BCs are a little less than some of the prototypes I have fired but the Cutting Edge bullets are much less fussy.

    Well there you go boys, these are good bullets. Now yall go gitchesome and lets start an argument about the BCs.

    Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Cutting Edge or any other bulletmaker in any shape or form, my only interest is to keep the 375 alive.
     
  6. JeffVN

    JeffVN Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the update and the differences in the cutting edge solids. It is nice to hear about a solids manufacterer that is making one that is providing a decent to very good BC but still not very fussy.

    JeffVN
     
  7. Bully

    Bully Active Member

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    Longranger what bullet weight and load you use in your 340wby?
     
  8. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    340 wby is a 1-10 twist 28" barrel. 94 grains IMR-7828 was the best load I shot in it. The bullet was the 225 grain max #62 and velocity averaged 3208 fps. I have a 2.6" group written down for it at 400 yards. It was seated to where the boattail began at the base of the neck where it was sized to. CCI 250 primer
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2011
  9. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    One of the amazing things I have found about these bullets is how easy they are to load for and shoot well. I really haven't got any bad groups with anything I have tried. Usually with a very aggressive design for high bc numbers the bullets get very finicky and it is difficult to find the sweet spot so they shoot well and some never do. These you pretty much load and shoot. I have found this to be true in several different rifles now. If your rifle shoots it will shoot these bullets is pretty much what I have found.
     
  10. venom600

    venom600 Well-Known Member

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    I've had the opposite experience so far with my 180g .308 (C48) loads in a 300 RUM. I've tried five different loads, all with Retumbo, and the *best* group I could get was 1.1 MOA. Most loads were 1.5-1.7 MOA. This is in a gun that shoots the Barnes LRX at .7 MOA consistently. Granted, my gun seems to hate Retumbo, so I'm going to try some CE loads with Magnum (which my gun loves). I haven't written off the CE bullets completely yet, but if I can't get them to shoot at least as good as my LRX loads with Magnum, I'm checking out.

    I really want them to work, because the 'on paper' performance potential is pretty good.

    --Ben
     
  11. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I have not tried the c48 bullets. I am shooting the c21 and c34. I am getting excellent accuracy out of both.
     
  12. Bully

    Bully Active Member

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    Long-range, I am wanting them for hunting elk and deer,have you heard anything about how they work for hunting? I'm going to order some tomorrow and try them in my .340wby,with that load you gave . I'll start 5 gr under and work up.my rifle is a wby mark5, with a 26in tube. P.S. Thanks again for that load for the 257 wby,with the 100 gr ttsx barnes.it shoots great and vel is 3678fps and your right it is alot better bullet than the old barnes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2011
  13. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    If you read bullet design under the Technical info tab there is a lot of good info and then look into the media tab and you'll get some good pics of terminal performance. I like that they seem to be designed deliver energy to the vitals more aggressively vs the narrower but exiting wound channel of other all copper bullets.
     
  14. Lausboob

    Lausboob Member

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    Finally had an opportunity to shoot the 225 CEB (D67) out of my 338 win mag @ 200 yards with decent results. Most groups slightly over 1" with less than ideal wind conditions. However, these bullets have been shooting 90-110 fps faster than any other 225 shot through my barrel thus far. Currently getting 2900 fps (25" barrel) with 70 grains IMR-4350. Plan on loading 71.5 grains (4350) and hoping to push over the 2950 mark. IMO, this really increases the long range capability of the 338 winnie with a BC of .640. Have very high hopes for this bullet. Would like to get a little better accuracy and trigger time behind the bullet before I commit. JW