Crazy thought/question for Fiftydriver.......

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Hired Gun, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    I have examined the new 338AM case in person and have been following the whole line of Allen Magnums. I know you think about this persuit of long range shooting perfection day and night, but have you ever considered this?

    <font color="blue"> Shooting one of Richards 200 grain or even heavier 7mm bullets out of the 338AM with a sabot. </font>

    I'm thinking it would not take much pressure or barrel length to push that setup in excess of 4000 fps. Coupled with say a 220 grain bullet this would just have to be a case of more is better. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    Somthing like this may one day may be the key to thee perfect low earth orbiting round. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    In theory, the idea could produce magical results, far in excess of anything we have ever seen in a conventional rifle as far as long range ballistic performance.

    Imagine a 250 gr ULD RBBT with a BC of 1.000 ripped out at 3800 fps or more!!!

    The problem is that I have read many high velocity tests using Sabot bullet experiments and all have been lacking one very important thing, accuracy!!!

    Until we get Sabots that with handle the velocity of these rounds I am afraid this is a dead duck idea.

    To my way of thinking we need metalic or semi metalic Sabots that are sectioned completely in half and that would mechanically lock around the bullet such as some of the military rounds do with the finned self stabilizing projectiles.

    Plastic Sabots will not cut it at this velocity and to make a sabot that will handle it would not be real cost effective right now with small caliber rounds. That would be exciting though if we could make it work someday.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     

  3. oldfamily

    oldfamily Well-Known Member

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    Kirby I might have some 25mm sabots in my army stuff packed away. I had several from my younger days. I was able to shoot the 25mm bushmaster on person size targets out past 1800 meters. Looked like a lazer going down range.
     
  4. Meister

    Meister Well-Known Member

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    sabots generally eliminate the use of a muzzle brakes as well.
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I would replace "generally" with "Always" at least with Sabots and small caliber rifles.

    Brakes and Sabots do not mix in my opinion.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Sabot\'s shooting for 5 MOA

    My goal is to get the 150gr .308 projectiles Sabot fired from my 50 BMG to 3 MOA - that would be considered excellent Sabot accuracy.

    [ QUOTE ]
    sabots generally eliminate the use of a muzzle brakes as well.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not necessarily - conventional brakes yes. Folks have used brakes opened up (.125 IIRC) on 50 BMGs. But for a 50 BMG, you don't need a brake when firing a 150 or even 240 gr .308 pill. Conservation of momentum is on your side ( 750 gr vs. 150 gr).

    [ QUOTE ]
    To my way of thinking we need metallic or semi metallic Sabots that are sectioned completely in half and that would mechanically lock around the bullet such as some of the military rounds do with the finned self stabilizing projectiles.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Cool idea. I've been thinking we need metallic Sabots. A huge part of the Sabot inaccuracy is in the break-away (or at least I've been told). Sectioning them in half would eliminate that problem.

    Can we get Richard to make some?
     
  7. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    I read something somewhere where a guy was reloading using sabots and he was claiming good accuracy. He had to machine a groove around the sabot so that the bottom of the groove was flush with the base of the bullet. That way the petals would break away clean on exit of the muzzle. I was again reminded after watching the military channel and seeing how the stabilized penetrators worked that the Abrams tank fired. The key being the extreme velocity afforded by the sabots. That in turn made me think of the military experiments with the 378 cases and aluminum bullets getting something like 6500 feet per second. If we could apply some of this science to a decent bullet it would take the sport to the next level much the way the Allen Magnums have.
     
  8. Meister

    Meister Well-Known Member

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    Does the means justifies end? We are looking to extend the range of our projectiles by shooting higher bc bullets extremely fast. A sabot has several problems to overcome before it can be a feasible solution. It's easier and more effective to neck a 20mm down to 7mm with a 320g solid bronze projectile. This type of round uses current technology upsized, but barrel technology lacks the longevity to make the cost worth the end.

    It's a great idea if we could overcome the issues. The current principles can get us farther. The Germans in WWII used current technology to fire projectiles into low earth orbit.
     
  9. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    My 505 Gibbs muzzleloader routinely shoots sub MOA @ 3k fps using a 150 grain 8mm Sierra Game King bullet.

    My most accurate bullet was a bullet that I machined from free machining brass based on a Flatau design. I was concerned that the internal pressure could rupture this design and have not tried it on game.

    Here is a picture of my first attempt which were made from copper, but they were too soft:

    [​IMG]

    edge.
     
  10. Black Diamond 408

    Black Diamond 408 Well-Known Member

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    I have about 950 BMG sabots (30 cal), anyone want them, make an offer. send email