Couple Beginner Questions

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by slvr98svt, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. slvr98svt

    slvr98svt New Member

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    Hey guys, I am just starting to look into getting a LR gun to take to the range and have some fun. I am kind of doing this on a budget and after reading the "long range on a budget" article on here I have a pretty good idea what I am after. Not sure how far out I want/can reach with this setup? Like I said I am all new to LR stuff.

    Start out with a Stevens 200 in .308 Winchester
    Per the article - SSS Competition Trigger
    Looking at the Choate Ultimate Sniper Stock
    SSS High Capacity Detachable Mag

    Now like I said I am just starting out, but I don't want to skimp on optics and want to upgrade in 6 months. So I was looking at the Bushnell 4200 6-24x50 Mil-Dot. I have read that a 20MOA base is not enough if you want to reach out to 1000yds. So what rings and base should I be looking for?

    Also as far as muzzle brakes go...Do I need to change barrel's from the beginning, can I stick with the stock one for now? What brake do you guys suggest?

    How about bipod as well?

    This will most likely just be a range rifle. Not going out hunting with it, just want something worthwhile to go long distance for a hobby gun.

    Thanks Alot, and sorry if the questions seem dumb! I am looking at learning as well as possibly doing the assembly myself if I can. If I can't then I will def. have a professional do it.

    -Matt
     
  2. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    A 308 shooting 175 Federal Gold Medal Match ammo should reach 1000 yards with 40 MOA of elevation. It will stay supersonic to about 1200 yards give or take a little.


    So with a 20 MOA base you will need a scope with about 50 MOA of vertical adjustment or more.

    You will not need a brake. A good recoil pad such as a limbsaver will be enough.

    Harris bipods are pretty much the standard. Get the one with the swivel base and notched legs. For me I am comfortable with about 9 inches so you can get a short one or a medium one.
     

  3. ejones338

    ejones338 Well-Known Member

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    As far changing the barrel goes, only shooting it first will tell you that one. I used to have a savage .270 that shot under 1/2 MOA straight from the box. I have also had some much more expensive rifles that didn't shoot very well at all.

    Just take the project in steps and let the rifle tell you what it needs.
     
  4. slvr98svt

    slvr98svt New Member

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    Steps are exactly what I planned on!

    Ok so I will stick with the stock barrel while I learn the ropes of LR shooting.

    A muzzle brake is not needed at first or for any reason?

    And I guess my biggest questions are on the scope. I have read great things about the 4200 series, but that it needs more than a 20 MOA base. I guess I don't quite grasp this part yet!

    Single or 2 piece? Name brand base and rings? I have been reading up on this the last couple months, and probably need to do some more. Just looking for a couple suggestions is all I guess.

    Thank you again and sorry for the beginner questions!

    -Matt
     
  5. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    I would skip the Choate stock and get the SSS LVT instead. Much better stock for only a little more money.

    Unless you are going to shoot tactical matches where you need the quick reload, skip the detachable mag for now. Spend the money on the scope.

    I would go with burris double dovetail bases and the burris signature rings. This setup is as solid as anything else and has the MOA inserts where you can put between 5 and 40 MOA in your set up and only costs around $75.

    Go with the new Sightron S3 in 6-24x50 with mil dots. Glass is clearer than the NF, solid turrets and clicks and 100 MOA elevation compared to maybe 50 with the Bushnell and less clear glass. Go to www.6mmbr.com and read the writeups on it.

    good used setups for what you want are often available on www.savageshooters.com and all the parts and links also.

    On Savage shooters you can get a new 30" savage 308 barrel that is really shooting with the new Sierra 155 bullets and shooting well inside the 175 SMK for both windage and elevation.

    BH
     
  6. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    BH beat me to the "skip the choate stock."

    +1
     
  7. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    The way you determine the amount of elevation you need in a scope is to start with the amount of drop you will need to shoot the longest distance. In the case of the 308 we will assume it is 1000 yards and 40 MOA.

    So with the rifle zeroed at 100 yards you must have 40 MOA of elevation left in the turret knob plus a couple for buffer.

    Assuming the receiver of the rifle is level (not always the case) then a scope mounted on a flat base will be zeroed at just about the center of the adjustment range. In other words a scope with 50 MOA of total adjsutment will have 25 MOA UP and 25 MOA DOWN. Clearly with a flat base you do not have enough "UP" to adjust 40 MOA to shoot a 1000 yard target.

    So you use a 20 MOA base which then means that the rifle is zeroed at 20 MOA below center or down to the very bottom with only 25-20 = 5 MOA left of DOWN adjustment. You then have 20+ 25 MOA of UP adjustment. Working with so little room for error (only 5 MOA left of DOWN when zeroed and only 5 MOA of UP buffer) is risky unless you know that the receiver if truly flat. You can wind up not being able to zero at 100 yards or not being able to adjust to 1000 yards if the receiver is off more than 5 MOA.

    Options are to use the Burris Signature rings as mentioned or if the scope you choose has some type of grid reticle you can use the grid to augment the elevation adjustment.

    If you are not going to hunt with the rifle there is not a lot of reason to have a variable scope. Fixed power scopes are simpler and will often give you better optics for less money.

    For a 308 there is not a lot of need for a muzzle brake. If you want one that is fine. It is not a big deal to put it on at a later date. I would not plan on it.
     
  8. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the Sightron S3 recommendations. I think you would be quite happy with this scope. And you'll get this improved clarity for about 1/2 the cost of a NF.

    Before someone else asks the question BountyHunter, may I dare ask if you have had the opportunity to directly compared the NF scopes to the new Sightron S3s in the field yourself?

    Be aware and be prepared. I claimed the SIII was clearer than the NF and those posted words shook the very earth beneath a number of NF users on another thread just this past week. Some NF users equate the brand of scope on a rifle as a measurement of the character of the person using the scope.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  9. foreign

    foreign Well-Known Member

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    +1 on the harris bipod and a great place to look for one and a scope is www.theopticzone.com. Well fron nz atleast it was. got both ere within 5 days from the us. still impressed with the service.
    .308 shouldnt need a muzzle break. i shoot one. but in saying that its not going to stop me making ont to install. but that shouldnt cost me anything.
     
  10. slvr98svt

    slvr98svt New Member

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    BuffaloBob, thank you for the clear and concise description of scope mounting and adjustment. Exactly what I was looking for!

    The Sightron S3 looks like an amazing scope, I will definitely keep that in mind when I get to that part of the purchase. However I am not sure if I will be trying to reach out to 1000 yards! I don't know of any ranges anywhere around me that have that kind of space. A couple buddies houses maybe, but I am thinking I will stick around more like 750 at the longest.

    But this being my first LR gun, it might take me a couple summers to try that length of shot! Do you guys mostly buy online or local as far as optics go? I would love to spring for the Sightron but adding another $200 or more onto the price tag of the 4200 and not necessarily needing all of the 100 MOA adjustment seeing as 1000 yards out is probably not in the planbook. I was just wondering where you guys find the best prices, seeing as this is going on a $300 gun to start with!

    The SSS LVT I assume you are talking about the Sharp Shooter Supply stock?

    Thanks guys for helping me with all the info. This thing is adding up quick and more than I was budgeting for what I hoped to be a budget build first!
     
  11. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Inorder to be able to purchase more guns you should never dump the clutch when the rpms are over 1200. Buying a new pair of Z rated tires every week will deplete your funds. :D
     
  12. ogreshooter

    ogreshooter Well-Known Member

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    For long range, I chose an SII 6.5-20x50 for $650 plus an additional $50 mail in rebate. I kicked around a large number of scopes, and Sightron was my final choice and I stand behind it 100% (and no, I dont work for Sightron, just like their stuff).

    One scope you might consider is the Super Sniper scopes by SWFA.

    SWFA Riflescopes SWFA SS Rifle Scopes SWFA SS Scopes

    A 16x42 with Mil-dot, rear focus, and good for use on a .50 BMG for $319.00. As someone else said, a fixed power is good for just shooting at the range. If that is what you are doing, stay fixed power, save some cash for other upgrades.

    Also, might try a Nikon on for size. They have good glass and are reasonably priced.

    Good luck with the rifle. I just got my first one set up (REM 700 SPS Tactical .308, Harris style bi-pod, Warne tactical rings and 20 moa base (for free as I won them in another shooting sport) and the sightron 6.5-20x50 SII). I also am looking at range time, but want another use for a rifle like this.

    If I had not won the Warne Tactical stuff, I would have used Weaver bases and rings. They are inexpensive and I have NEVER had one fail on anything from .223 to .308. So if savings is your game, you might look at those.

    All in all, I have right at $1200 wrapped up into it and it shoots sub 1/2" groups at 100 yards.