Coolant/Oil for Chamber flush

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by WARD, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. WARD

    WARD Member

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    Looking for some guidance for my needs. I recently got all set up for chamber flushing and now need to select my fluid that best fits my needs. I have not done this way of chambering before. Completely new to this.

    I am a low volume shop. Maybe 10-15 chamberings a year. Maybe more but thats the current trend.

    I would like low maintenance. I have read about synthetic vs others. Seams synthetic is easier to maintain. I will be going many weeks between chambering so I have been told having something like Rustlick 5050 or others may not be the best for me due to inactivity of the fluid. If I am wrong please tell me so. I have some 5050 on hand but will get what what would be better if advised. I have no experience with the "smell" and "growth" but from the sounds of it, I would like to avoid that if possible. I have also read about discoloration of the exposed metal on the lathe...whats that about? I don't want that!

    What ratio to use with what product recommendation? And why that ratio? Is it based on volume of your pump, material, cutting speed, or some combination of all three and more?

    Thanks in advance. And if you got some other insight that you would like to let me in on....much appreciated! For I'm sure I left out other questions I should have asked.
     
  2. WARD

    WARD Member

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    No one has a suggestion? Surely someone here does it this way and has a recommendation.

    Are there any members here that anyone can point me towards that may have an answer?
     

  3. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    the concept of super precision reaming is a closely guarded piece of information right from the start. Probably the best is "Trim CE", but where you but it now I don't know (also the best drilling and tapping fluid out there). I've seen extreme reaming done with everything from the old black cutting oils to plain old mineral seal. Mineral seal will give you the best finish, but has other issues to deal with (it's flamable for one). Does not like a tremendous amount of tool pressure is is trickey to setup. Once you get there it's a winner. Raw Trim (comes in a concentrate to be mixed with strait water) painted on the reamer will do better than 95% of the stuff out there without a fancey coolant system. One bad thing about Trim is that it's hard on the paint job and will eat the seals out of a ball screw, so you gotta remember that issue. Painted on the reamer with a brush will not cause that heart break. Trim CE will handle much higher tool pressure loads than mineral seal if that is an issue. But the micro finish is better with mineral seal as it comes out looking like it was honed. Trim CE will induce some stress in the parent metal if your removing a lot of stock (try to keep the final ream to about .006"). In the heavy machining industry Trim and mineral seal are the goto in 70% of the high precision ream jobs. There are a couple other close copies of that coolant out there, and they work fairly well, but becarefull as at least one is very caustic. Also you can't just dump any of these coolants down the sewer! They all must be handled by a recyceler.
    gary
     
  4. Rustystud

    Rustystud Well-Known Member

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    I use Rustlic 255R as suggested by their engineer for my appication. over the last 7 years I have chambered about 1800 barrels. I cut mine 3:1 and have a 15 gallon reservoir. The best money i have ever spent. I ream at 25-35 psi and flush at 75-125 psi. If you are woried about bacteria add a 1/2 cup of clorox every 6 months.

    Two trains of thought 100 lubricant coolant Oil based or semi senthetic with water. No matter what type you use it needs to be an extreme pressure coolant lubricant.

    Pump designed around the coolant lubricant, not oil designed around pump.

    Heavy oils require higher horsepower pumps and higher dollars to build the system.

    Nat Lambeth
     
  5. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    you can get lubricity out of coolants as thin as milk, but you have to get the right ones. Most accurate machining coolants I've ever been around were mineral seal, but your insurance company hates them! I think it's time for the concept of precise reaming to move up to modern times. What they are usuing today is 1950 technology
    gary
     
  6. Rustystud

    Rustystud Well-Known Member

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    I have several reamers with over 1000 chambers cut no wear issues and never reground.

    My 308 95 Palma reamer has over 1800 chambers cut.

    Rustlick 255R can be cut 10:1, 20:1, or 30:1 according to the manufacture. I tried to cut it 1:1 and found out how "GOJO" is made. I cut mine 5:1 without any ill effects.

    Some don't like it because it will remove paint if it contacts a painted surface.

    Nat Lambeth
     
  7. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    that's similar to what we used with Trim CE (water ratio), but what I was implying is that the best ream jobs come from mineral seal and custom ground Mapol reamers.
    gary
     
  8. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    Nat,
    That is a lot of 308's. I'm thinking you chamber more barrels a year than some of the smaller barrel makers make.

    Love your MARS.

    Shawn
     
  9. WARD

    WARD Member

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    Great! Some replies going. Thought I might have to look over on the hide and get whipped a bit for such a question :). I agree secrets should be held close but once your in the grave they go with you. "Us" young guys need to learn from the been there done that fellas.

    I emailed Greg at GTR and he recommended Re-Li-On for my limited use and long time in between reamings. I also spoke with a rep at Rustlick or whatever the parent company is and he pointed my towards Oakflo products for my needs. Said to stay clear of water soluble all together. I then spoke to a nice lady/rep from Oakflo today and they are gonna get back to me with a recommendation sometime soon and perhaps a sample she said. That would be nice for I only need so much coolant sitting around that will never get used. I have a few allready!!!

    So I have been beating the streets so to speak. I want a thin product, high EP, low viscosity is what the nice gent at rustlick advised me to find. "Gun drilling" oil is what he advised. I'll admit I am not all to hip with all these oils/products/terms out there. Back at CST we used what I imagine was a generic cutting oil and applied it by brush. Very slow and I know there is a better way for me even with my low volume.

    Thanks for the replies. I'll get it figured out soon enough I reckon.

    Keep em coming if you have any thoughts.
     
  10. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    interestingly that the guy said to stay away from water soluble cutting fluids. They're kinda the standard in the industry right now, and have been for thirty years. Petroleum based fluid are now only used in gear cutting and certain specialized grinding ops (thread grinding mainly). Still a lot of folks are using spray mist systems for basic surface turning on engine lathes and light milling ops. Mostly used to keep the inserts cool.

    When they first started using water based stuff there was a problem with acidity, but that's been gone for over twenty five years. Rusty is right about bacteria forming in them, and we did the samething he did with a gallon of bleach per hundred gallons. I recommend adding bleach to whatever you use as there is a fungus problem with just about every coolant out there these days, and bleach is the cheap fix.

    Whatkind of a coolant system are you using? With an open end deal like a gun barrel, a Jet Pulse is the hot setup if you can find one reasonable. It will literally blow the chips out of the cutting area like nothing I've ever seen, but it dosn't work well with super thin coolants like mineral seal.
    gary
     
  11. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    I tried the water soluble oils and it started brown staining (rusting) the ways on my new machine in the first couple days. Never again.

    I'm now using straight Rigid Extreme Peformance Oil. It's made for thread cutting on stainless. Works great. Doesn't stink or eat my machine. It acts like about a 10 wt oil. My threads look and feel like chrome.
     
  12. WARD

    WARD Member

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    Hired Gun, Are you also flushing with it or just applying it directly when threading/chambering?


    Trickymissfit, I built a DIY setup. Not sure what sort of pressure I am getting for I haven't found my first fluid to run through it to even guess a PSI. I plan on fixing that real soon however to know just what pressures I am running for it seems that verifying a certain pressure and maintaining its setting for consistency, may be a better way to go rather than simply using a ball value to guess my way through fluid flow. Greg also advised me of that.

    The Rustlick guy said with intermittent use the water soluble will be troublesome as did Greg at GTR. I don't beleive either were telling me that they were not great products, but just not for me at this time.

    I'm a small shop. Once I get all the rifle orders I can handle for a year I'm done. Right now its around 15 per year with my other obligations taking away from expanding operations. When I told all these various folks that number, thats when the "stay away from water soluble" advise came forth. Maybe a chamber flush method isn't for me at this time, but it sure seems like the way to go.

    Maybe the gal at Oakflo has just the product for me. If not I'll try something else and perhaps even a water soluble with the bleach trick.
     
  13. ken snyder

    ken snyder Well-Known Member

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    I flood with the same coolant I mist with. Kool Mist 77. It isn't the best stuff in the world for flooding because it needs to be changed often. But the stuff that doesnt need to be changed so often starts stinking so bad that it gets changed even more often. It yields a fantastic surface but does require a very high equipment maintenance schedule to prevent rusting. - surface is what it is all about not tool life or just walking away from a machine and being able to let it set!. For interupted cutting and threading I use Beeswax
     
  14. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    I am flushing with it. I use it for all threading and general cutting. It seems to work good for everything and the beauty of it is it seems to be good forever. I will probably change it out once a year whether it needs it or not.