Controlled round feed vs push feed.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by RockyMtnMT, Feb 3, 2009.

  1. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    Hey guys,

    Looking for opinions and experience with both. Pluses and minuses of each. Is it caliber specific? Or is one just better than the other?

    Thanks, Steve
     
  2. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    I guess I'm not so much asking about the controlled round feed, but the claw extractor. How desirable is it to have the bullet held onto by the bolt? I guess it does not seem like a big deal to me, I have never run the bolt w/ the rifle up side down. Some one tell me what I don't know.

    Steve
     

  3. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    For long range I doubt it's necessary - or even desireable. Some may argue that contolled round feed actions are less accurate. I have no idea whether that it the case. Some will argue not having an ejector under the case head is actually an advantage...

    This though is the guts of it - if it's relevant to what you intend to use the rifle for (like DG hunting) it's a consideration, if not then don't sweat it in my opinion...

    This is from something I needed to put into a firearm licence application, it was based on descriptions found on the net (don't recall whose)!!

    A controlled-round feed type action will feed correctly with the rifle held at any angle and even upside down. Controlled-round feed designs also prevent double feeds. This is because when the extractor has captured one cartridge, a second cannot leave the magazine without the first being ejected. Either way, only one cartridge makes it into the chamber. With a push-feed action design, incorrect operation (particularly “double stroking” the bolt) can result in two cartridges trying to enter the chamber at once, jamming the rifle with potentially catastrophic results for the hunter of dangerous game.

    Full length, Mauser type extractors not only increase feeding reliability, but they take a bigger bite on the rim of the fired case, making the extraction of dirty or oversize cases, or those affected by pressure due to high ambient temperatures, more certain. Most other designs do not take as positive a grip on the case rim as a Mauser claw extractor, making failures to extract more likely.

    Professional hunters and those who have a lot of experience hunting dangerous game and particularly African dangerous game in hot climates with bolt action rifles widely favour controlled-round feed designs, such as the Mauser Model 98, Ruger Model 77 and Winchester Classic Model 70.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  4. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    Thanks LRHWAL,

    It's your first line that I am interested in exploring. If there is any truth to the ability of one action type to be inherently more accurate? If not, it seems that the controlled round feed the better action.

    Steve
     
  5. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    A push feed wil cycle just fine upside down if you cycle the bolt properly
     
  6. Scott S

    Scott S Well-Known Member

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    I've owned 3 Remington 700's and 3 Winchester Model 70 Classic (CRF) rifles. I now only own the Winchester rifles. The Remington's were great rifles...I just prefer the CRF in my rifles now.

    I truly believe it will boil down to YOUR personal preference on the action.
     
  7. jmatson

    jmatson Active Member

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    LRHWAL gives a very good explanation, I prefer control round feed for most of my hunting rifles. The accuracy advantage of the push feed action such as Rem 700, Savages and custom actions lie in the faster "lock time" those actions have over the Ruger, Mod 70, Mauser 98, and Springfield.

    If I was going to have a long range or target rig made I would choose a highly tuned Rem 700 action. I have several medium and large bore rifles all on Mauser actions. The reason? You can get parts for a Mod 98 Mauser in some really remote areas of Africa where I sometimes hunt, but I also carry two extra parts with me when I go, a firing pin assembly and an extractor. Those are the only thing that can break on a 98. Break an extractor on a Rem 700 (although pretty reliable but I have heard of them breaking) and it may just ruin your hunt.
     
  8. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    I own both, but will only use CRF for a dangerous game rifle.

    I hunted with a PH who used a 450 Ackley on a Win Mod 70 push feed and he had experienced extraction problems on several occassions in the past and was looking for a CRF. The lack of taper on the 450 case, small extractor and a dusty chamber and high temperatures all added up to a problem. Most CRF designs will avoid that.

    The one benefit of a push feed that should be mentioned is that you can drop a cartridge in the chamber, or on the mag follower and feed it in. With a CRF you generally need to get the rim of the case behind the extractor first. When hunting DG there may be times you need to drop a round in an empty gun, then the push feed will win and you'll need to get the cartridge into the mag to feed from most CRF designs. For the same reason the CRF can suffer in capacity if that bothers you. My Win CRF allows for 3 in the mag and I can push another last round in far enough to enable the extractor to grab the rim, so mine is 3+1. In a push feed you always get mag capacity plus 1, some CRF's only give you mag capacity as the mag is too full to go the plus 1.

    Yes, push feeds are fine if manipulated correctly. Sometimes that's not possible and stress casues all sorts of muscle memory problems. I've double feed jammed and had failure upsidedown (also a problem with short cartridges in long actions) when testing my push feeds to see if it's potentially a problem - and it is. Obviously I fed slowly in one case, and double stroked intnetionally the next.

    My longer range rifles are currently push feed and I have no preference. I don't intend to cycle them under huge pressure, or upsidedown (the bipod won't work that way :)).
     
  9. jmatson

    jmatson Active Member

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    Right on the money LRHWAL! A good freind of mine profesional hunter Fred Duckworth use to use an older Wetherby Mark V 460 as back up. He has also had extraction problems one time shooting a charging lion if memory serves me correctly. He was very glad the he only needed one shot. He also had problems with the floor plate popping open from the heavy recoil of the 460. He used to tape up the floor plate with duck tape to keep it from popping open. He now uses a double 470.

    When I go after the stuff that can hurt me I will be carrying my Anson-Deely 500 3 1/4" double, it is by far my most favorite rifle.

    It always seems that Mr. Murphy shows his ugly face more often in Africa than anywhere else. Don't you think so?