Conflicted between Weatherby 30-378, .Warbird and 338 Lapua

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by bruinbro, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. bruinbro

    bruinbro Member

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    I'm dumping a G3 clone to a friend and can get something in the no-more-than $1,300 range. I'm looking to get into 800 yds and beyond target shooting (no hunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif). I've done some research on ballistics, but was wondering what the real world experience was and if any of you have recommendations.

    Thanks,
    Bruinbro
     
  2. bruinbro

    bruinbro Member

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    Didn\'t do my homework

    I should have read this thread...

    Search results

    Bruinbro
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Of the three you list, I would pic the Lapua over the other two every time. If your going to spend this much for brass you might as well get match quality brass which the Lapua is.

    The Norma made 30-378 is generally pretty good but even more spendy then the Lapua. The Lazzeroni brass is very inconsistant and when paying +$2 per case, this is simply not acceptable.

    The Lapua is easy to load, has long barrel life compared to the other two and will offer all the performance you could ever want out to 1000 yards with a 300 gr VLD or ULD bullet. Even the 250 gr bullets do very well at long range.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. bruinbro

    bruinbro Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Of the three you list, I would pic the Lapua over the other two every time. If your going to spend this much for brass you might as well get match quality brass which the Lapua is.

    The Norma made 30-378 is generally pretty good but even more spendy then the Lapua. The Lazzeroni brass is very inconsistant and when paying +$2 per case, this is simply not acceptable.

    The Lapua is easy to load, has long barrel life compared to the other two and will offer all the performance you could ever want out to 1000 yards with a 300 gr VLD or ULD bullet. Even the 250 gr bullets do very well at long range.

    Kirby Allen(50)

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Thanks Kirby, I really value your comments and insights. Would you change your recommendations if barrel life and brass cost were not factors?

    Bruinbro
     
  5. Brown Dog

    Brown Dog Writers Guild

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    If it's for targets only, I'd go for something with far less horsepower....there will be big savings in terms of cost per shot ...not to mention 'pleasantness' when you don't get beaten-up by recoil / thumped by a shock wave every time you pull the trigger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ....6.5-284?
     
  6. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    I agree with BrownDog if you don't need the energy to kill anything but paper then why not choose a 6.5 or 7mm round , with the high BC 6.5 bullets pushed at a good velocity say around 3000+fps you should get out well past 1000yds with it.
    Hell even one of Kirby's Allen mags with those ultra high BC Wildcat bullets and then if it comes up you can hunt with it
     
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Bruinbro,

    No not really. If you look at the rifle chambered in each round I would lean toward the Lapua anyway. Not a fan of the Wby MkV so that one would be off the table in my opinion, far to expensive for what you get on average.

    All three rounds are chambered in the big Sako rifle. I have shot them all and all shoot very well in this rifle. Still, the 338 Lapua is on averge far easier to develope true match grade ammo for.

    At ranges under 600 yards, the big 30 cals will have a slight advantage in trajectory because of the higher velocity potential but when loaded with a bullet like the 300 gr Wildcat ULD RBBT or 300 gr SMK, the 338 Lapua is ballistically superior at 1000 yards and out.

    Actual bullet drop may be similiar but remember its wind drift that will cause us to miss far more then bullet drop errors. The higher the BC the less wind drift, the 300 gr 338 wins in this catagory.

    Also, recoil of the 338 Lapua is milder in my opinion then the other two. In reality it may be a heavier recoil but it is a much slower shot to the shoulder then the big 30 cals which often produce a very intense Slap to the shoulder.

    With a brake this is a non issue of course.

    Of the three, only one was designed from the ground up to produce extreme accuracy over extreme range, that one being the Lapua.

    A more cost effective way to get identical performance is the 338 RUM. Brass is not as good but I have built several of these rifles that will run toe to toe with the Lapua in velocity with same bullet weights and alsohold extremely tight groups in a custom rifle.

    Another option is Shawn C.'s 338 Edge(338-300 RUM) A bit more performance but again more cost effective to get brass for.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  8. guns_and_labs

    guns_and_labs Well-Known Member

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    Well, being the type that has to learn the hard way, I bought a second hand Sako in the Warbird, with a 28" carbon fiber barrel from Christensen.

    Learning #1: Lazzeroni brass has to be sorted and culled for consistency. Expensive brass becomes a bit more expensive.
    Learning #2: Lazzeroni brass can be reused once or twice.
    Learning #3: My rifle seems to hate high vel loads. I can't go higher than 3250 fps with a 180 gr Barnes TSX without the groups blowing up.
    Learning #4: This rifle has an extremely narrow seating depth window.
    Bottom Line: So, why am I using expensive brass, a finicky barrel, and only settling for 3250?
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Guns and Labs,

    The cure, order in a Lilja 1-10 338 barrel of appropriate contour, send it and the rifle to any one of several of us smiths on LRH and you would be in business.

    It certainly does not have to be a Lapua to get great results.

    I am sure you already know this but 3400 fps with a RUM with this bullet weight is a peice of cake in a 27" Lilja. I am not a fan of the carbon wrapped barrels. I just do not believe they offer the stiffness of a solid steel barrel. Perhaps I am living in the past but I have seen several perform very poorly with high intensity magnum rounds.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  10. guns_and_labs

    guns_and_labs Well-Known Member

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    Well, Kirby, you are undoubtedly correct. But, as I said, I have to learn the hard (and expensive) way. I'm sure I won't try the carbon barrel again, and I doubt I'll choose the most expensive brass on the planet again.

    But, when it works, the Warbird is a heck of a round. After all the pain and anguish, I'm getting good performance. But, boy, it was a painful road.
     
  11. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Sounds to me like your rifle is barly any faster than a 300Wby and burning alot more powder !!

    I've been doing some loading for a 300RUM with a 28" Pac_nor and I'm getting into the 3500fps range with the 180gr bullets and accuracy is awsome. I'm not to sure that the added horse power it offers over the 300Win or Wby is worth it as its only going to be shot out to 700-800yds but at some large hogs so i guess that justification
     
  12. bruinbro

    bruinbro Member

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    Did a lot of research today

    It looks like Kirby's recommendation of a .338 RUM is going to carry the day. Accuracy at 1k, ammo cost, barrel life and downrange wind relative insensitivity were some key factors. Cost of the rifle has become a bigger factor as one of my cars broke it's crankshaft. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    This looks like the ticket after scrounging around the web:

    Buds Gun Shop Sendero

    [​IMG]

    After adding a brake it will still be in my budget and I can save up for accurizing. One question, though, can this fire the .338 EDGE?

    Thanks, and please keep adding input to this thread,

    Bruinbro
     
  13. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Re: Did a lot of research today

    I am currently building my next "lightweight long range elk killer" for when the 300 win won't reach far enough. I am having a reamer made for what I am loosely calling the .338 thunder. It is a 338 ultra with .010" case taper, 40 degree shoulder, tight necked (well snug anyway) and throated for the Nosler accubond 225 so the base will be at the mid-shoulder. It will feed well through a 700 action and since it is shorter than the 300 ultra case, I will probably get same or more case capacity than the 338 edge because my neck will be longer and the bullets will be able to be seated out farther making more space inside the case. I will glady give up case length if I can gain back the volume somewhere else because the Remmy magazine box isn't too friendly with the 300 ultra and long bullets!

    Another plus is, in a pinch, I could fire 338 ultra's in my chamber whereas the Edge is out of luck.

    Through a 27 inch barrel, the 225 ab should go around 3330 fps and with a bc of .550 it should break the shoulder blade of any elk out to about 1600 yards!

    I thought long and hard about the 338 Lapua or 338 Lapua improved as I already have dies for both, but unless you're firing 300 grain bullets, they have too much volume. The 225 really only needs about 95 grains of powder to reach top velocities from a 27 inch tube. With 95 grains, the load density will be around 95% with the bullet where it is going to be.

    Brass definetly isn't as good as 338 lapua brass, but if you buy 150 pieces of REmmy, you should have enough left over after culling to use for any big game hunting or target shooting session.


    One thing I learned in my research came from doing load development on a 338 ultra standard last fall. Nothing in my experience heated up a barrel as fast as that 338 for some reason. It burns the same amount as the 300 ultra's with 180's but it heated the barrel up twice as fast! So I started really looking at a carbon fiber wrapped barreled Chistensen I was working on at the same time and noticed it cooled off VERY quickly. I have worked on several dozen of these in the past and was not sold on the cooling properties until the 338 came along. I don't know if they are stiffer, but I can tell you that after I got through with most of them, they shot in the .2-.3" at 100 yards with huge hunting rounds so they must work ok. Anyway, time will tell because I am ordering a custom Krieger barrel and I am going to have it wrapped how I want it (with a longer than normal barrel shank, and having someone else do the chambering) and I am going to insist on standing there watching while it is being wrapped. The reason for this is a long story but let's just say I want to shoot the barrel I bring them, not some factory tube they tell me is my custom barrel.

    Anyhow, the blueprinted 700 action will be dropped in a Mcmillan Lazzeroni sporter with green and black marble finish and it will be pillared and glassed as normal. The 27" carbon barrel will wear a Christensen's brake (which I have found to be actually quite good) and the scope will probably be a 6.5-20x50 LRT Leupy with a fine duplex reticle. I will use a Ferrel 20 moa base and Burris sig rings. I haven't decided on a trigger yet. Probably a Jewell set at 8 oz. Other goodies will be a Holland bolt knob, and Sako extractor.

    All in all, it will be a super long range elk killer that will be legal in most western states (even in Idaho where the MOAG is not welcome on a big game hunt) and best of all-no one will ask to shoot it because it will be a <font color="blue"> LEFTY! </font> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
     
  14. bruinbro

    bruinbro Member

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    Re: 338 Thunder

    See my post on LH rifles /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Lefty shooting

    Bruinbro