Confidence in your scope?

[BravoEMike]

Greetings! Pete,
Good to hear you are getting along well.
I tried to open the web page and was unsuccessful also. Perhaps you could give this a go... www.tacticaldynamics.us
Scroll mid-page and open Sniper/Long Range articles.
The video should load automatically. If this opens successfully...I would welcome your thoughts. Just curious is all. It appears in the video the group pictured is split...with two distinct strings, vertically!
Confidence...
I don't think I have a lot of confidence with the AW mount, once I removed the scope. I would feel compelled to re-check zero (by shooting) if possible, before using it. And most certainly anything beyound 500 yds. But...I have never tried doing it. I am new to this, and shaking out my "AW-Leupold-me system".
As this all developes I will post.
Semper Fi
Bruce ~~___/)~*~

 

[Brown Dog]

Bruce,
I'm very pleased that you are having such success with your AW! Awesome rifles

.

You may find the weight less bothersome if you get hold of a set of the AI biathlon straps.

-As regards scopes...just say 'sod it' and get a 4-16 PM2 -problem solved!

Pete,

Yup, correct, I could get from this keyboard to the centre of Imber in less than 10min (although MODplod may take a dim view of that since I'd be in my own car!)

How did I end up with a 202? ....it's a long story that rather demonstrates the flatness of my learning curve...started with an SSG -so,so - changed to a Blaser R93 -myriad problems (an essay in itself)piece of rubbish (we agree again!); then changed to my 1st 202 (in 308). Beautiful and accurate rifle -although I wasn't comfy with it much beyond 200m. I scratched that itch [thinking: surely the Blaser wasn't that bad?] by getting another Blaser, this time the r93 jagdmatch..and relearnt that Blaser are...not very good. History repeated and I got myself the 202 Alaska in its place. More horsepower, but still not a genuine longrange prospect. Hence the AW.

My plan was to use the Alaska for reds (Scotland) and keep the AW for down south. Trouble now is, this AW is just so easy-to-shoot accurate that it may end up doing everything!


In terms of the result of all that longrange spending; it may amuse you both to know that, so far, the AW has taken 2 roe bucks. Both standing shots, one at 32m and one at 50m!

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Well thats some long range shooting with that AW !! to **** heavey for any Scottish hill side, unless you are super fit !!. the Blaser R93 is a pile of crap, they cost 380 DM ( 190 euro) to build, and what do they sell em for? the breech lock up warrents further investigation and developement but apart from that,, well ok, they are accurate, very, untill they break.
drop me an email, last time i was directly in Imber, i was on a shovel recce and some jocker photographed me, ended rear up on the propaganda photos for Simex 88.
Pete

 

[BravoEMike]

Greetings:
Some conclusions...
Last week I made an inquiry with Schmidt & Bender USA and TAC-Pro, for replacement of my current scope. I am leaning towards S & B 4-16/mil-dot reticle. (Thank your Brown Dog, Pete, and Subsonic Flyer)
However I have recently learned that Accuracy International has a Schmidt & Bender Scope made to there specifications. This scope has a mil-dot reticle and a range finding feature...as seen through the bottom of the scope. Also there is a bullet cam built into the elevation turret...I am guessing similar to the Leupold M3 Long Range series scopes. Tac-Pro is currently checking on the availability of a .300 win mag., cam from Schmidt & Bender.
I have also explored Night Force (2nd choice), US Optics...they seem overly complex to me...and on there web site they defend there products against Scmidt & Bender?? Hmmm...what's that about?? They do get good reviews from others who write here though.
Sooo...PMII (4X16), Accuracy International Model, or off the shelf PMII?? Either way I have to get new 34mm mounts...
Pete...I digress! Accuracy International Mounts $105.00 US...Badger $300.00, Schmidt & Bender PMII $2000.00 plus...I think these prices are close but not exact.
This Long Range STUFF...madness is all...just plain madness! And to think I am going to do this just to bust a Roe Buck at under fifty meters, or a bear at under 25...Ha!
However...I am prepared to do what it takes to get what I...WANT?
CONFIDENCE!!
Previously I have been doing most all this with confidence using a Styer 30-06 Carbine/open sights for many years. I felt at no disadvantage...using open sights out to 200 yards, on rare occasions to 300 yards...deer sized game. Muzzle velocity? An inch high at 100 yards, or was it meters...well who cared then, no one told me about that. Experience!!, sight picture, press, blam!, down. Bullet type...hmmmm not certain? Does it really matter!! Oh! Pete, couple years ago I installed a scope on this rifle...not going to tell you which which quick detachable mount I used.

Rant!!
This is rapidly approaching buying a used car!

Well not quite.
So...can anyone tell me how this Accurray International/Schmidt & Bender ranging scope Works??
Hensoldt? I have a 4X...and like it much. Can a Hensoldt be purchased in the US as used on the German G-22 rifle? Are there any details known or published about this scope?
Subsonic Flyer...does your Schmidt & Bender have the ranging reticle? Thank you for starting this thread...again this has challenged my thinking!!
Brown dog...shooting off hand with an Accuracy Internationl...surely, you all...must be giants in England!!

Enjoy!!
Semper Fi
Bruce ~~___/)~*~

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Bruce, the AI reticle is made exclusively for AI,its a Mildot with a step like feature coming up of a datum line in the bottom right corner, used for bracketing a mans torsoe. Badger 34mm rings are about $150 and will fit any picatinny type base, the AI rifles can be had from factory with a picatinny rail or an after market one can be fitted. no matter which scope you go for i would opt for a picatinny rail and badger ord rings.
The hensold 4x scopes from the PSG 1 or the DMR G3 areavailable here in germany from time to time.check out the following web site:www.i-e-a.de.
You can get caliber specificturets for the PMII but is stick with the 10th and 1 miliradian incremented turret and have my come ups chart to match.
drop me an email if you like, and i can get you a PMII for less than $2000 here i am sure.. Pete

 

[Brown Dog]

Bruce,
300wm elevation turret for the PM2:

307-107 0.1 Mrad .300 Win Mag (G23) £35.00

(I'm not clear whether the part number at the front of that is S&B or AI, this is from an AI list(also don't know what 'G23' refers to either!)

Problem is, it'll be calibrated for a particular factory round -chances are it won't match your load. These differences will become very apparent at longer range.

I do what Pete does, that is, I have a come-up chart that refers to the Mrad scale on the turret. Mine is miniaturised and stuck on the inside of the rear Butler Creek cover so that I can read it when the cap is open.

I may get some of these made up one day:
http://www.kentonindustries.com/


.....but I imagine these options will be closed down if you go for the double turn turret (speaking of which, I don't think you'll need the double turn; the AI one-piece mount is pre-canted -that's why it's important to put it on the right way around!).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> Elevation adjustments are in 1/4" clicks. I know and realize they will conflict with the mil-dot reticle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got that right! mils and metres are all so simple ...next you'll be saying you want to move the reticle into the 2nd focal plane

If you're using a laser, I wouldn't worry about the extra S&B rangefinding lines on the AI version. The hashes,as Pete described are quick-fix ranging marks, there are 4 horizontal marks over a baseline that subtend 1m at 400,600,800 and 1000m respectively (1m being taken as the approx distance between the top of a soldier's helmet and his belt). The same hash marks can be used for a 25cm head at 100,150,200 and 250m.

Pete,
I'll drop you a line shortly.

[ 10-01-2004: Message edited by: Brown Dog ]

 

[BravoEMike]

Hi Pete,
Thank you for your response...and also for you very generous offer on a scope purchase.
This morning I posted on another thread...perhaps you would read it and can see where I am heading with all this.
I have read most all you post and can inform you I was most impressed. I noticed you use a Schmidt & Bender. Brown Dog does also...he suggest I just "sod it" my Leupold"...don't know what that term means??
My intentions at this juncture are this...
Saturday, this weekend I will have an opportunity to look at a used Schmidt & Bender PM II...(2) one each of 4-16 and 3-12. They are both equipped with the double turn elevation feature. i.e. two turns max to highest elevation, different colors (black & yellow) on elevation turret to determine if you are on the first revolution, or second on the elevation turret. Elevation adjustments are in 1/4" clicks. I know and realize they will conflict with the mil-dot reticle...as opposed to CM clicks. But...I believe the 1/4" clicks will give me the accuracy/precision I want. I am leaning toward 4-16 power.
Hensoldt? You had mentioned in another post they make a 6-24 X50mm objective. Also a 72mm objective. It was just a thought by me is all.
Again any and all thoughts are welcome...time is omnipresent! Should the price be right...I will walk away with one this weekend.
Semper Fi
Bruce ~~___/)~*~

 

[BravoEMike]

Brown Dog,
Thanks for the explanation on the Accuracy International reticle!
Double turn turret? I think I shall trash that idea.
Custom turret fron Kenton Industries...interesting idea that I want to explore further. Would be a neat concept...different load...w/compatable turret. Hmmm.
Metric...I am not certain why I am fighting it. I think because 1-CM are larger than 1/4"...its the accuracy vs: precision thing with me. My goal...1 minute, cold bore shot, incrementally (100 yds.)out to 1000. I know this is an arbitrary goal...but my goal nonetheless! It is also to establish my confidence I can now achieve this out to 200 yds.
Lazer rangefinder...Ha! I will have to go to the bank today to get a loan on a scope.

I want to check out the binoculars with the ranging feature. Hmmm...perhaps?
Also, I will call Schmidt & Bender USA today to find out which scopes can be fitted with the cam you describe.
Much thanks...
I will keep you informed as this all progresses.
Semper Fi
Bruce ~~___/)~*~

 

[BravoEMike]

Hi,
Centermeters it will be then!!
Spoke with Schmidt & Bender USA rep. today.
PM II...
270 degree turn of the turret to maximun elevation!
Custom engraved elevation adjustment rings (turret)...they will provide. Simply complete there work sheet for the load you are using...click value for each range...and they custom engrave it on the turret.
Blank turrets available also.
Accuracy International bullet cam...made available through Accuracy International...must contact them for availablity.
For tomorrow...we shall see.
Thanks.
Bruce

 

[BravoEMike]

Hi,
Pete...can you get for me a good price on Schmidt & Bender PM II...4X16. CM adjustments.
What kind of lens covers do you and Brown Dog use? i.e. Butler Creek... S & M propriatary??
Could't find anything used over the weekend...looking for used or new!
Thanks.
Bruce

 

[Pete Lincoln]

I'll get you a price,, gimmie a couple of days ok.. i use butler creek covers.. Pete

 

[BravoEMike]

Pete,
My direct e-mail address is:
[email protected]
Thanks...
Bruce