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<blockquote data-quote="Buffalobob" data-source="post: 77603" data-attributes="member: 8"><p>John M</p><p></p><p>With respect to your point on what actually kills, I tend to agree that bullet diameter is a very important component of the equation and is perhaps more important than bullet speed. I do not believe that energy is the correct descritpion of what kills but it is what most people understand and can relate to and can be used for comparison. And I believe that DA's conclusion is right and he undoubtably has enough knowledge to know about bullet diameter. However, Paulinus will need to practice just like all of the rest of us before he takes a shot at that range and he may make a mistake just like all of the rest of us. If we had a contest on which of us has done the stupidest thing it would be one long thread.</p><p></p><p>The reason the 338s are the undisputed king of super long range shooting is they make a big hole with a big bullet (this will probably start another argument). My feeling on speed is twofold one it helps with range error and wind and two -momentum is what is needed to break bones (impact or impulse analysis) and speed (velocity)is part of the equation in momentum analysis (of course the bullet has to withstand the impact) and mass is the other. When one is shooting the smaller calibers one must be very comfortable with one's ability to shoot around the shoulder bones or else one must have a gun capable of breaking them at the range of the shot. I think the 257Wby will do that with a nice heavy bullet. Will a 7Mag do it better, Oh yes, there will be exactly the hole you describe.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I fully agree with you on thin barrels, before I found this forum I was completely set on having a 30-378 built on a Neiska action and a heavy Lilja barrel and and A5 stock. I still may, but I am very hopeful that Kirby will succeed with his 7mm. I credit Weatherby for setting a very high bar as far a cartridge case capacity but both of my guns are on non-weatherby actions. The thin barrels will shoot OK but the barrel is not a place to save weight.</p><p></p><p>Any way, I have cleaned the guns a little and now I got to mow the yard, then I will clean the guns some more. Then I guess I will fool with my brass and watch the race. The good news seems to be that I have finally got enough powder behind the 160 Accubond that the carbon fouling is way way down in that gun and it is mostly copper fouling now. We will see if the primer pockets are still good? The bad news is I got to re-shim the scope.</p><p></p><p>I am going to post this but I might come back and edit it later.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Buffalobob, post: 77603, member: 8"] John M With respect to your point on what actually kills, I tend to agree that bullet diameter is a very important component of the equation and is perhaps more important than bullet speed. I do not believe that energy is the correct descritpion of what kills but it is what most people understand and can relate to and can be used for comparison. And I believe that DA's conclusion is right and he undoubtably has enough knowledge to know about bullet diameter. However, Paulinus will need to practice just like all of the rest of us before he takes a shot at that range and he may make a mistake just like all of the rest of us. If we had a contest on which of us has done the stupidest thing it would be one long thread. The reason the 338s are the undisputed king of super long range shooting is they make a big hole with a big bullet (this will probably start another argument). My feeling on speed is twofold one it helps with range error and wind and two -momentum is what is needed to break bones (impact or impulse analysis) and speed (velocity)is part of the equation in momentum analysis (of course the bullet has to withstand the impact) and mass is the other. When one is shooting the smaller calibers one must be very comfortable with one's ability to shoot around the shoulder bones or else one must have a gun capable of breaking them at the range of the shot. I think the 257Wby will do that with a nice heavy bullet. Will a 7Mag do it better, Oh yes, there will be exactly the hole you describe. I fully agree with you on thin barrels, before I found this forum I was completely set on having a 30-378 built on a Neiska action and a heavy Lilja barrel and and A5 stock. I still may, but I am very hopeful that Kirby will succeed with his 7mm. I credit Weatherby for setting a very high bar as far a cartridge case capacity but both of my guns are on non-weatherby actions. The thin barrels will shoot OK but the barrel is not a place to save weight. Any way, I have cleaned the guns a little and now I got to mow the yard, then I will clean the guns some more. Then I guess I will fool with my brass and watch the race. The good news seems to be that I have finally got enough powder behind the 160 Accubond that the carbon fouling is way way down in that gun and it is mostly copper fouling now. We will see if the primer pockets are still good? The bad news is I got to re-shim the scope. I am going to post this but I might come back and edit it later. [/QUOTE]
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