Cleaning a bore

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by liltank, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting a new thread due to it starting to take over Kirby's thread. So the question is what is the best option? Now I have heard to lube, and to shoot dry. But the question of moly coating comes to mind. Wouldn't shooting a Moly Coated bullet do and act the same as a lubed barrel? Now I prefer to clean to bear metal then fire a fouler to start my accuracy string. What I did find by doing this, is that my zero doesn't change. One the other hand I have tried doing the clean and shoot thing with a lightly lubed barrel snake and the first shot of a test load is always somewhere different then the following shots.

    What say you, and keep it civil boys!!!!:D

    Tank
     
  2. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    Fifty,

    Do you think a person would potentially get less copper fouling over a string of shot using Kroil than GJ before the first firing?

    Which would provide the longest lasting consistency over the course of a string of shots?

    Thanks,

    Jon
     

  3. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    The manufacturer of Gun Juice does not recommend against the use of the product for application for storage of a 'cleaned' bore. [In fact the manufacturer recommends the product for application for gun storage purposes too. Of course.. they do sell Gun Juice.] I've never had a bore corrode in storage when stored within my home outside of a gun case, whether the bore was cleaned or not, other than when I've left ammonia based bore cleaner in the bore (don't do that). I suppose if you live in a high humidity - sea shore environment - then better safe than sorry and clean and oil coat your bores after every firing session. Where I live - I just leaved the bores fouled until I feel that a cleaning is necessary for accuracy, or until I believe the guns will be in storage for 6 months or so. During the hunting seasons I just leave them fouled in storage.

    After you've treated a bore with Gun Juice, I rather doubt you need to worry about firing the first shot on an oiled bore. The bore has already been sealed and coated with a friction reducing agent. Certainly the benefit will be reduced for a Gun Juice treated bore compared to firing over a bone dry steel bore. For non-Gun Juice treated bores, Kirby's stored lightly oiled method to decrease first shot fouling certainly makes sense. I'm glad he covered that and I think it a good standard operating recommendation and practice.

    Placing some oil in the Gun Juice treated bore for storage certainly won't hurt anything but I doubt there's any perceivable benefit. Hey, if it gives peace of mind, well then it's well worth the peace of mind. $0.02 for the wetted patch, oil, and peace of mind.

    Tiger Woods would be thrilled with the cost-effectiveness, comparatively speaking.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  4. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    I think keeping his gun oiled was the start of his problems!!!! :DLOL!

    In all seriousness, I have been trying to make a habit of cleaning and leaving a little oil for storage. I have also made a habit of running a patch with break cleaner on it to swab out the barrel just before heading to the field.

    So is moly coating a barrel more beneficial than what was initially thought? Kirby uses a little moly mixed in with oil. Sounds like a decent lube combo.

    Tank
     
  5. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    I've been spooked away from Moly treated bullets based on troublesome reports of the Moly sealing in copper and carbon fouling. Preface: I have no actual experience with Moly other than paper/research/reference-type knowledge. Based on that, I'd feel better treating a bore with Moly than the bullets.

    But now that I've used GJ, I'd say you're better off treating your bore with GJ than Moly - IMO.
     
  6. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    What I'm really wondering is if Fifty thinks a GJ or Kroil 'coating' before first shot out of a clean barrel would do better for reducing copper and increasing consistency over a shot string.

    I guess now that my barrel is treated with GJ, using Kroil would just add another layer over it. I don't know. Is that what you were referring to phorwath? Wasn't quite sure if you were referring to my post specifically or just posting in general on the topic.

    I'm pretty happy with what I've seen progressing since starting to use GJ. It's just a rough factory barrel and I'm keeping an eye out to reduce copper fouling, which by the way, appears to me to be much less after using GJ over the last 100+ of 1400+ rounds through it. It may all just be coincidence, but since treating with GJ (and also gaining a better understanding of prone shooting technique and associated muscle memory and a great(edit: meant to say 'greater') understanding of loading techniques thank to this site, so it may be difficult to attribute all pos. results to GJ) I've had what seems to be a steady increase in consitent precision from this rifle. Last 3 out of 4 shots at 628yds when into 1 1/4" right on target after a couple of sighters for wind as I was too lazy at that point to try to estimate and adjust for wind before the first shot. Not the best learning practice in retrospect...
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  7. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    My response was both general and specific to your question. Many opinions out there but I would go about it this way.

    I only apply GJ to any of my bores after I'm certain they are stripped clean of carbon and copper fouling so as to not seal the dirt in under the Gun Juice. If your bore was cleaned with Gun Juice and you've fired 100 rounds since the last maintenance application of Gun Juice, then I would prep the bore for another swabbing with GJ and then shoot the first shot over the GJ treated/ wetted bore preferably, or GJ wetted and dried bore by the time you get to the gun range.

    If your GJ treated bore still coppers some after complete GJ treatment, and you wanted to clean the bore due to copper fouling with much fewer than 100 rounds fired since the last GJ swabbing, then based on what Fiftydriver has seen through bore scopes, apply a light oil lubricant coating to the bore after cleaning to help minimize first shot copper fouling.

    If you haven't cleaned your GJ treated bore since the last outing/shooting, then just go shoot over the fouled bore - a non issue.

    As to whether Kroil is better than Rem Oil, is better than Tri-Flow, is better than Brake Free's CLP, is better than Tertra Tech products - I doubt that anyone knows other than the sales reps for each of those companies. And I think we know what they recommend. My thoughts and $0.02
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  8. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    I am not 50 but I am an advocate of lubing the barrel before the first foul shot. I believe that there is less copper fouling during the 1st shot. This cuts down on the copper fouling of sequential shots. I have NO scientific proof to back this up but it seems to have worked consistently for me with all of my rifles when visually inspected. I store clean bores with some sort of anti corrosive and swab clean and re-lube with fresh oil just before the first shot. An old BR shooter shared that trick with me.

    Another thing I have seen with both the dry method AND the lubed method is notable velocity differences between the 1st and sometimes the 2nd foul shots and the rest of the shots. I typically see a velocity difference with all 1st shots from a cold bore but only a few FPS above average where the 1st one or two foul shots are vastly different from the average.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  9. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    ME,

    I couldn't quite make out from paragraph two above what velocity differences you see in your fouling shots and the rest of the shots depending on if the bore was left dry or lubed. Did I miss your intent there? Have you noticed a difference between lubed/dry bores fouling shots compared to the rest of the shots?

    What lube do you use?
     
  10. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    I dont really know what I intended to convey here. Just rambling.

    I guess what I was trying to say is that most of the time when I fire a foul shot in a clean barrel regardless of whether or not I lubed it or left it dry, I see a velocity difference on the first foul shot and sometimes the second. Different in relation to the overall average that is.


    I prefer some type light weight oil such as rem oil. I use a few drops on a clean patch and swab once.
     
  11. MT4XFore

    MT4XFore Well-Known Member

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    I am unfortunately well over 50, and I have always stored cleaned rifles with the bore lubed. Part of the reason was that was how I was taught to do it and just before hunting season I check my zero and leave the gun fouled until after season is over. However, I recently started to work up loads for a couple of my rifles and decided to see if my cold bore, un-lubed shots hit to point of aim. I found out three things: 1) yes, it did hit very close to point of aim, 2) I was shooting through my chrony and the velocity of the dry barrel shot was considerably lower than the rest, and 3) the barrel was somewhat more difficult to clean afterward, depending on how many shots I fired. I am firmly convinced that the "fouling" shot does two important things, it removes the oil from the bore and it lays down its own lubricant in form of carbon deposits (graphite) for following shots. This is my opinion only, but it has worked well for me for many years, so I have no intention of changing anything.
     
  12. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    You are almost convincing me to start oiling my first shot. Thanks A LOT!!!!:rolleyes:

    Tank
     
  13. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Clean bore shots (the first shot fired on a cleaned bore) will sometimes deviate wildly from fouled bore MVs, and it's not uncommon for the the POI to vary somewhat also - which is what one should expect with wild variation in muzzle velocity, let alone with cleaned bore surface contacting the versus the fouled bore surface. I've had dry, clean bore MV drops of 125 fps from normal fouled bore shots in both of my Tikka T3 7mm Rem Mags before they were Gun Juice treated.

    This is why I like to leave my rifle fouled rather than cleaning and oiling every time I come back from a hunt or shooting. This is also why I like Gun Juice treated bores. They foul more slowly and GJ provides a sealing film over the bare steel, adding to corrosion resistance. Disclaimer -> all IMO.