Buying the right equipment the first time? Advise wanted!!!

[drbill]

By drift do you mean inconsistent charge weights?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYGl6ZNUkoI]Effect of static electricity on Sartorius Balance - YouTube[/ame]



The Rifleman's Journal: Good Stuff: Anti-Static Spray

 

[rscott5028]

How often do you cross reference your charges on a second scale?

Rarely if loading match grade long range practice ammo.

Every single charge if I'm loading for competition.

Side note: I've referenced competition several times now. I should point out that I don't compete. I load for my son. And, he's competed in exactly one long range shoot at Tac-Pro. But, he did come in 6th out of 30 pretty serious shooters. So, I figure we did something right.

--richard

 

[shortpants]

Thanks for all the great advise!!!

 

[drbill]

Rarely if loading match grade long range practice ammo.

Every single charge if I'm loading for competition.

Side note: I've referenced competition several times now. I should point out that I don't compete. I load for my son. And, he's competed in exactly one long range shoot at Tac-Pro. But, he did come in 6th out of 30 pretty serious shooters. So, I figure we did something right.

--richard

And/Or your son is just a darn good shot!!!!!

 

[Hunter2678]

Hands down as far as a press is concerned...the Forster Co ax is the way to go < .001 runout ..I have one and its pure joy to run, esp with thier BR dies.

 

[Trickymissfit]

By drift do you mean inconsistent charge weights?

drift usually refers to the nominal charge weight changing on you without making any changes to the scale.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Gary,

For starters, I don't doubt that others may have better or worse experiences with the same product. These are electronic devices and aren't necessarily made to the highest standards. Balance beams are pretty simple and trustworthy.

I just timed one 50g sample of h4831sc that came out to ~18 seconds.

I've used it with Varget, RL22, H4350, and one or 2 others with similar results.

If I bump the table, it'll sometimes read a tenth or 2 over/under and it has an indicator to remind you that it's over or under. In which case, I thump the tube to drop another granule or grab a pinch from the pan and toss it back in the hopper.

Drift hasn't been a problem. But, I try to be mindful and keep an eye out.

If it's been sitting, stable, level, consistent temp, I don't notice much drift. By notice, I mean that I watch the reading when I remove the pan to fill a case and it should go to -142.3. On occasion, it'll be 1/10g over/under. If that happens, I weigh another charge and if it does it a second time, I recalibrate.

I usually get through a batch of 50 without recalibrating.

If I'm sorting bullets, I keep one as a control and check it every now and again.

If I'm loading competition ammo, I use the Chargemaster first, and then set the pan on the Sartorious which is suppossed to be precise to +/- .02 grains. You have to be a lot more anal with that one to stay within that kind of precision. But, it can be done. And, it may or may not help with your groups.

It's pretty easy to clean. My biggest challenge is the small size of my loading bench. I have to make room, slide it around to the edge, and then drain powder back in the bottle. But, I try to plan ahead so that I'm not switching powder constantly.

I also don't try bunches of powder/bullet combos. I find something that's known to be trustworthy e.g. 6br+107SMK+Varget, or 6.5x284+142SMK+h4831sc. If it won't shoot something like that, something's not right. ...although, I'll admit I may miss out a special load every now and then.

Thanks
Richard

reason I ask is that I often will go thru four different kinds of powder in one setting. I never felt the drift was an issue anyway, but noticed that you mentioned it in your post. I use a Pact electronic scale, but don't use a measurer. I will often have a second scale setting there to do a check, but have yet to ever run accross a charge out of spec. I mostly throw charges with a Lyman or the Harrell, and these two repeat very well unless the powder is a very large granule.

There are anti vibration devices out there, but most are not cheap. You can build one pretty easy if you have the mind to do it. Find a wood box that is about 33% bigger than the unit being used. All it needs tobe is about 2 1/2" deep max. Cut another piece of partical board or plywood (P.B. is best) that will go inside the box without touching the outside walls. Fill the inside of the box with play sand or aquairium sand, and place the inside platform in there and level it. This is a system developed for high end audio equipment to reduce vibrations that create feed back. If your worried about sand getting all over the place, then put it in a plastic bag.
gary

 

[rscott5028]

reason I ask is that I often will go thru four different kinds of powder in one setting. I never felt the drift was an issue anyway, but noticed that you mentioned it in your post. I use a Pact electronic scale, but don't use a measurer. I will often have a second scale setting there to do a check, but have yet to ever run accross a charge out of spec. I mostly throw charges with a Lyman or the Harrell, and these two repeat very well unless the powder is a very large granule.

There are anti vibration devices out there, but most are not cheap. You can build one pretty easy if you have the mind to do it. Find a wood box that is about 33% bigger than the unit being used. All it needs tobe is about 2 1/2" deep max. Cut another piece of partical board or plywood (P.B. is best) that will go inside the box without touching the outside walls. Fill the inside of the box with play sand or aquairium sand, and place the inside platform in there and level it. This is a system developed for high end audio equipment to reduce vibrations that create feed back. If your worried about sand getting all over the place, then put it in a plastic bag.
gary

Great tip re: sand bag to dampen vibrations.
Just goes to show that it's not always about high dolar/high tech to get the job done.

thanks!

 

[shortpants]

Another question for those of you who reload at the range. How on earth do you use a scale in the wind. I was told to turn off my ac and fan as the scales are so sensitive to air moving across them. Got me wondering how you guys do it???

 

[BlackKnight755]

Shortpants,


You have gotten some of the best advice throughout this thread that I have seen in a long time! Some of the posters have offered differences of opinion but they have done so in a very friendly manner by offering reasons to there different opinions. I commend ALL that have posted. You all are offering your knowledge to someone that is just starting out, and to some of us who have been at it awhile are picking up tidbits of info also (at least I did).


Your last question is a good observation. I don't see how people load at a match without having charge weight issues. One of the posters stated that he didnt use the plastic shroud with his RCBS Chargemaster. I DO use the shroud with mine after being shown one of the reasons that the shroud is on there. It keeps the wind from blowing on the scale (it does make a difference). Without the shroud in place, the weight will be plus or minus the specific charge weight that I'm looking for. I still check the weight about every 5th or 6th round to make sure that everything is where it needs to be.

There is alot of great information about reloading on this forum, just remember, if you run into something that you don't KNOW to be fact or if something that is suggested seems unsafe... just ask. I am sure that someone can give you an opinion on the issue.

 

[rscott5028]

Shortpants,


You have gotten some of the best advice throughout this thread that I have seen in a long time! Some of the posters have offered differences of opinion but they have done so in a very friendly manner by offering reasons to there different opinions. I commend ALL that have posted. You all are offering your knowledge to someone that is just starting out, and to some of us who have been at it awhile are picking up tidbits of info also (at least I did).


Your last question is a good observation. I don't see how people load at a match without having charge weight issues. One of the posters stated that he didnt use the plastic shroud with his RCBS Chargemaster. I DO use the shroud with mine after being shown one of the reasons that the shroud is on there. It keeps the wind from blowing on the scale (it does make a difference). Without the shroud in place, the weight will be plus or minus the specific charge weight that I'm looking for. I still check the weight about every 5th or 6th round to make sure that everything is where it needs to be.

There is alot of great information about reloading on this forum, just remember, if you run into something that you don't KNOW to be fact or if something that is suggested seems unsafe... just ask. I am sure that someone can give you an opinion on the issue.

I don't use the shroud on my Chargemaster because it's plastic and loaded with static. I can watch the charge weight reading change simply by moving the shroud closer/farther away. I only weigh powder indoors. Otherwise, I might use a different scale, or shroud, or try the anti-static spray suggested earlier.

Once I'm close to my final load, I will seat a batch of ammo long and then use an arbor press with Wilson micrometer seating die at the range to fine tune seating depth.

-- richard

 

[shortpants]

Black Knight, I agree this has been a very informative topic and respectful at the same time! Not always easy to do. As someone with next to no experience it is hard to look at an ocean of reloading equipment and decide what to spend my hard earned money on. It does not help that I'm a perfectionist and over analyze everything. But in the end I usually end up not regretting my purchases. I don't look at price first but what will best work for me for a price I can justify. That being said the cheaper I can get started reloading the sooner I can call Kevin Cram and tell him to start on my first custom! It's killing me to be patient but in the end it will all work out. I don't believe in credit cards so all I can do is save and keep over analyzing.

Richard, thanks for the clarification. I was thinking maybe you could pre weigh charges out and somehow keep them separate but your way seems simple. So when loading at the range you guys know your charge weights ahead of time? If not what next?

Thanks again guys!

 

[joe0121]

Whats a good beam scale to use to verify my auto charge against.

 

[BlackKnight755]

Whats a good beam scale to use to verify my auto charge against.

I use a RCBS 10-10. It is a middle of the road quality scale and it doesn't break the bank. There are many others and the sky is the limit on price, this is just my choice and it does the job i need it to do.