Button or cut?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Tikkamike, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    I am shopping for a barrel. I have a Krieger on my 338 which is a cut rifeling then lapped. I was looking at hart and see they are button rifled.. I always assumed cut was better because mass production uses button.... what are the advantages/disadvantages of each? does it matter if they are lapped and stress relieved afterwords?
     
  2. paphil

    paphil Well-Known Member

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    Mike, I'm picking up a 6.5-284 barrel at hart's shop tomorrow and I'll ask them why they use button drawn instead of cut. I have a 22-243 barrel that I got from them last year and it shoots really well. It broke in real easy too. I'll post reply when I get back.
     

  3. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    Perfect timing! thanks Phil!
     
  4. paphil

    paphil Well-Known Member

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    Off the subject but did you get picture of Robbies bear?
     
  5. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    yeah haha about 50 of them. Pretty little guy. I like that big white spot though.
     
  6. B23

    B23 Well-Known Member

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    I think you will find it's a personal preference thing.

    Now, I'm sure some will argue to the death as to which is better but in the end both sides would mutually agree that as long as you buy a barrel from one of the top tier Manufacturers you will do well. One of those 6 one way half a dozen the other.
     
  7. specweldtom

    specweldtom Well-Known Member

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    Lilja barrels are button rifled, and I don't think anybody makes a better barrel. I've also used Shilen, Hart, Brux, Lawton, Krieger, and Walther. None of them are more consistent or accurate than Lilja's.

    I don't expect much from factory button-rifled or hammer-forged barrels, but between the top custom barrel makers, my opinion is that you can just take your choice.

    Tom
     
  8. texan79

    texan79 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is spot on. Im shooting two pulled barrels right now and have two Bartliens on order to try the cut side of things. As long as it shoots, i dont care.
     
  9. paphil

    paphil Well-Known Member

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    Well Bobby Hart says they use button drawn because that is the way that works best for their manufacturing process and gives the best results for them. Also that it is much easier to break in. So which is best ? Most all shoot well regardless and it boils down to personal preference! I don't think one will wear better than the other so go with what you like.
     
  10. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    Tony Boyer uses nothing but Shilen barrels, and they are button rifled. I've used both, and don't see much difference but a little more cash
    gary
     
  11. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

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    Both shoot if they're done right. Both can be lemons. Cut rifles introduce less stress in the barrel metal as metal is simply removed to make the grooves rather then the grooves being pressed into the metal. Button rifling generally produces very smooth and uniform bores. The stress in the metal don't hurt accuracy as long as they're symmetrical. Most smallbore benchrest barrels are buttoned. Many larger bore barels used for long range shooting are cut barrels, but both can work for any caliber.

    Certainly there are good barrel makers doing both. My preferece is to use button barrels for 30 cal or less.. I choose cut barrels for long range rifles over 30 cal. Both rifling methods are more consistant (usually) than hammer forged barrels and more expensive. In my opinion the reputaiton of the barrel maker is more important than which method is used.

    I consider rifle barrels to be sort of like tires. You buy them to give good performance for the type of use you plan to give them. They may outlive your vehicle or rifle or they may last a few runs at at drag races or a season of competition shooting. It doesn't take expensive tires to bring home groceries. or texpensive barrels for typical deer hunting. It does take expensive tires and expensive barrels if you're pressing the limits of speed and distance. As with button vs cut barrels, the tires whch win the Indy 500 are different from those which win the Baja 1000. That's not to say either is better. In all cases barrels and tires are expected to wear with use and are expected to be replaced when their performance declines.. Both are an expensive part of the sport, but not as expensive as fuel or ammo.
     
  12. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    a button going thru a bore forming the rifeling induces a compressive stress that should be very even assuming the bore is round and the same size from end to end. A compressive stress is much different than stresses that we normally think of, as it actually induces a slight rigidity to the surface. The micro should also come out slightly better with a button, but that also creates a problem as well. That super smooth burnished surface does not lube quite as well, and will create more friction in metal to metal contact. All that aside the cut rifeling is only as good as the indexing process, and there will always be some backlash in the mechanism. Yet a button rifeling job is only as good as the button itself and the way it's pulled or pushed thru the bore. It also will have a slight amount of backlash in the mechanism. I think both systems depend greatly on the quality of the drill and ream job; let alone the lapping process if done prior to rifeling. I doubt that 99% of us would ever know the difference between barrels unless they were told.
    gary
     
  13. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    Assuming both types are capable of "one hole" groups at 200 yds, I'd pick the one that cleans easier. If there is a preference when it comes to that, I'd be interested to hear it...??

    I don't know what type Benchmark makes, but I've got a new Benchmark tube on a 6LD, didn't do any break in process, 40 rounds and can't get any blue patches with Sweets or Shooters Choice copper remover. Done this 3 times so far. I know my solvents are still cutting, because a 22-250 gives blue patches from start to finish. That Benchmark tube is way easier and faster to get clean.
     
  14. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Both rifling types are capable of equal accuracy. It depends on how uniform the bore's dimensions are after the barrel's finished and ready for installation.

    Hart used to make the most accurate 30 caliber barrels. Obermeyer and Kreiger were a very close second. When Hart's top man, Al Hauser, retired, their barrel quality dropped so the 30 calliber folks switched to the other two. Then Obermeyer's retail barrels gave way to special order ones leaving Kreiger as the best.

    Since then, a few other makers have been putting out good stuff. Althoudh Matt Emmons had to go through 4 or 5 Lilja .22 rimfire barrels to get one good enough to gold medal in the Olympics, Lilja can make a good barrel.

    I will pick a barrel among several that are equally accurate but has the longest barrel life. I don't care how easy or hard it is to clean.