Bushing Dies?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by blanko, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. blanko

    blanko Member

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    I am new to this forum and having been getting quite a bit of information just searching through the posts. But I have a quick questions about full length resizing dies that I haven't been able to find an answer for. Thanks for all the info, neat website you have here.

    Does it make that much of a difference on accuracy if you use the bushing dies or just the standard resizing dies?

    I full length resize anyway and was wondering if having less neck tension on the bullet make for more accurate rounds?

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. nddodd

    nddodd Well-Known Member

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    I for one love the bushing dies, but I've been called OCD on more than one occasion. I'm one to try anything to squeeze out a little more accuracy. The bushing dies are a very easy way to change neck tension, a little pricey but so is everything else. Usually you need to turn your necks to get the correct use of your bushing die.


    Hope this helps,
    Nathan
     

  3. nddodd

    nddodd Well-Known Member

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    I for one love the bushing dies, but I've been called OCD on more than one occasion. I'm one to try anything to squeeze out a little more accuracy. The bushing dies are a very easy way to change neck tension, a little pricey but so is everything else. Usually you need to turn your necks to get the correct use of your bushing die.


    Hope this helps,
    Nathan
     
  4. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    I find it easier and just as effective to use a body die and a Lee Collet Neck Sizer die.

    The Lee collet die usually gives about 1- to 1.5 thou of "tension" and that's as much real bullet grip you gonna get no matter how much smaller the necks start out. Smaller necks only give you increased seating pressure and more bullet runout.
     
  5. NW Hunter

    NW Hunter Well-Known Member

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    +1 on what Boomtube says.
    I get consistant ammo with the same set-up with no neck turning.

    Lee Collect Neck Sizing dies can be adjusted for neck tension.

    To see how, go to ammosmith.com and look for the tutorial on Lee Collect Neck Sizing dies ( I believe there are two parts).
     
  6. blanko

    blanko Member

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    Thank you guys for the information.

    Has anyone noticed that when they went from regular sizing dies to the bushing or collet dies it improved the accuracy of the load they were shooting?
     
  7. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    Bushing dies improve accuracy only when you have the correct bullet tension. Measure the diameter of a loaded round, then deduct about .002". Select three bushings - one on each side of that measurement. Experiment with those three, keeping everything else in your load the same. One of them should produce better accuracy than the others. I don't use collet dies. Send $70 and two fired cases to Lynwood Harrell, and he will make a F/L bushing die exact fit for your chamber.
     
  8. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "I don't use collet dies."

    I don't use bushing dies, not any more. Too fussy, too costly, don't work any better than Lee's collet's, IMHO.
     
  9. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    I've had excellent results with both the Lee Collet dies and Redding Type-S bushing dies.

    Neither one works particularly well if they aren't set correctly.

    The Lee seater is pretty good. But, it's no micrometer either.

    I ruined a bunch of cases and/or had mediocre results before I got the Lee Collet dies set correctly. Once I got it down, they are pretty good and the price is right.

    Redding comp dies are expensive. But, it's nominal when you start doing a lot of shooting.

    -- richard
     
  10. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    x3 on the Lee Collets and my answer to your question about improving accuracy is yes, the Lee Collet will improve the accuracy components of neck concentricity and consistancy of bullet grip.

    I have 2 sets of Redding Competition bushing neck sizers, one in 30-06 and one in 338RUM. I no longer use the bushing die in 30-06 since I got a Lee Collet for it. They don't make a Lee Collet for the 338RUM but after sizing 50 cases the other night with the bushing die, I made my mind up to finally sent a couple of cases to Lee to have them make me a Lee Collet in that caliber. The reason is that out of 50 cases there were 5 of them that had significantly less bullet grip than the other 45. Now these were outside neck turned to fit a tight chamber

    [​IMG]

    and obviously the turner took a little more off on these 5 than the others. I do not have a smaller bushing but it would be a PITA to keep changing the bushing for variances.

    I discovered this variance in bullet grip with the bushing dies by gauging with a set of pin gauges

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    When gauging the ID's of the necks there was some variance. After sizing with any of my Lee Collets there is NO detectable variation in ID. That is because of the way the Lee Collet works. All the variations in neck thickness are pushed to the outside of the neck. With a bushing die all variations in neck thickness are pushed to the inside of the neck unless you leave the expander ball in (and why do that, might as well buy a cheaper FL die).

    And would someone please tell me how you can squeeze neck brass onto a non-compressible steel mandrel and "adjust them for neck tension". The only variance should come from differences in work hardening and subsequent variations in springback between cases. I suppose you could only put 10# of weight on the press handle when using the Lee Collet rather than the recommended 25# and that might result in less bullet grip. Don't know how that would help since the Lee Collets put a minimum bullet grip on anyway.

    YMMV
     
  11. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    I only neck size with an arbor press and Wilson dies. If I'm neck sizing, will also turn my necks for a 80% cleanup or better. One thing I like about using a bushing is that I can control neck tension with a bushing change. And lately I've been doing some experimentation with neck tension.

    Now I've got a virgin .223 Lee Collet die, and it wil not size the necks I use in my .223 Remington. These necks are either .243" or .244" depending on which lot. I wish the die would go down to about .240". I also did the same check with a handfull of 22-250 brass in a collet die. The necks were shaved to .244", and the die would not resize the necks. Has anybody here had this problem?
    gary
     
  12. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong. But, I think that may have been one of the problems I had with some of my brass in the collet dies some time back. Basically, I neck turn the bare minimum in order to even ot about 85% of the neck wall thickness. But, I couldn't get the necks to size to .002" tension without crushing the shoulders.

    That's a complete non-issue for me with bushing dies.
     
  13. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    I had exactly the same experience with a Lee .223 collet die. That is why I only use bushing dies now.
     
  14. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure with either that bad results mean we're doing something wrong. Afterall, somebody get's each approach to work..

    I'm curious as to how a collet forces thickness variance outward. I mean on the surface it looks to me that the collet fingers are pushing(forcing brass) inward.
    Now with bushing sizing(Wilson) I follow-up with mandrel expansion(Sinclair). This forces variance outward for me.

    Also someone mentioned changing bushings for tension adjustment. This doesn't work. Tension = Springback, applied to area.
    To adjust tension with a bushing die(to a pretty fine resolution), you can adjust the LENGTH of neck sizing.
    Not sure that any of that could be done with collets.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011