BULLET TEST COMPARISON (as promised)

[elkaholic]

If you are losing sleep, pacing the floor late at night and mumbling to yourself you can try reading this article.

Terminal Ballistics


Even though he an engineer is from the cow college in Alabama i.e. the one with the substandard football team, he does a fairly good job of staying with the fundamentals. In it is a paragraph on spin and he pretty well summarizes my own opinions. Lots off people say lots of things about FMJ but few people actually know what they are talking about. He also understand game bullet stability.

You can also ponder his opinions on hitting bone as opposed to gelatin.

While I don't agree with everything, it is at least worth reading and thinking about. He has updated the stuff since I last read it so I read most of it again today.



If you enjoy smacking wet paper with bullets then you can read the companion piece.

Terminal Ballistics

If you like B movies you can go too his home page. I have a fondness for low budget scream queen and post-apocalyptic movies.

Whew! that was some heavy reading! I actually found myself agreeing with the portions that I could understand. He makes a lot of good sense but I don't pretend to be at the same level of understanding as this guy. I guess the best part was that the practical part of what he said I have observed, for the most part, in the field. Thanks for the material........Rich

 

[RockyMtnMT]

If you are losing sleep, pacing the floor late at night and mumbling to yourself you can try reading this article.

Terminal Ballistics


Even though he an engineer is from the cow college in Alabama i.e. the one with the substandard football team, he does a fairly good job of staying with the fundamentals. In it is a paragraph on spin and he pretty well summarizes my own opinions. Lots off people say lots of things about FMJ but few people actually know what they are talking about. He also understand game bullet stability.

You can also ponder his opinions on hitting bone as opposed to gelatin.

While I don't agree with everything, it is at least worth reading and thinking about. He has updated the stuff since I last read it so I read most of it again today.



If you enjoy smacking wet paper with bullets then you can read the companion piece.

Terminal Ballistics

If you like B movies you can go too his home page. I have a fondness for low budget scream queen and post-apocalyptic movies.

Thank you for stopping the pacing. I was wearing a path in the floor.

I have read him before. I read the entire "Shooting Holes in the Wounding Theory"

Perhaps worry is not the correct word. Lack of stability because of insufficient spin or bullet shape can cause unpredictable tumbling causing an unknown path after impact. The following is a quote from the essay.

Bullet construction is the most important factor because it will determine whether the stresses of impact allow the bullet to overcome the resistivity of the target. In other words, is the bullet tough enough to survive the impact and penetrate, or will it shatter, and if so, how far will the fragments penetrate? Advances in metallurgical processing of bullets have made contemporary designs superior to anything used in the last century, giving small-bore bullets the effectiveness of huge lead balls. The target material will greatly affect the selection of bullet material, but in general, toughness (malleability) is more important than hardness. Other features, such as bonded cores and tapered or partitioned jackets permit greater penetration by controlling the expanded presented area and retaining bullet mass.
Bullet shape is next in importance because a pointed bullet which does not deform becomes unstable at impact velocities of interest and will not penetrate as deeply as a flat-nosed or round-nosed bullet of the same weight and velocity.

Steve

PS Every hunter should read Shooting Holes in Wounding Theories.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I am posting Rich's boolit pictures for him while he gets it all figured out.

Left to right.... 200 AB, 190 Sherman, 210 Sherman, 225 Sherman and 260 Sherman.

Rich promised a box of the 225's for posting these pictures

 

[elkaholic]

Thanks Mark! I should have some more soon. I did some more testing today with some VERY interesting results......Rich

 

[elkaholic]

Just noticed that the bullet pictures with the quarter didn't have a caption. They are as follows: Left to right: 200 Nosler Accubond, 190, 210, 225, 260 Sherman XR's

 

[SHRTSHTR]

Bump, looking forward to more test results

 

[MontanaRifleman]

OK... Here are some more bullet test result pictures from Rich.

 

[elkaholic]

Thanks again Mark! I plan on trying to set up a water media in the near future to give everything a fair chance. Water tends to work quite well and will definitely give more uniform results from shot to shot. AT the very least, I think these first results are good for comparison. The Nosler had a "slight" edge in these tests because it was a 200 grainer fired at equal velocities with the lighter weights. The momentum with the higher sectional density would exert a little more force on the bullet nose and help expansion. Feel free to chime in guys. I would like your input and ideas.......Rich

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Thanks again Mark! I plan on trying to set up a water media in the near future to give everything a fair chance. Water tends to work quite well and will definitely give more uniform results from shot to shot. AT the very least, I think these first results are good for comparison. The Nosler had a "slight" edge in these tests because it was a 200 grainer fired at equal velocities with the lighter weights. The momentum with the higher sectional density would exert a little more force on the bullet nose and help expansion. Feel free to chime in guys. I would like your input and ideas.......Rich

Kind of surprised by the Berger pics. Fairly high velocity, little bullet deformation. I thought they were more frangible than that. I have never used them, but thought they had a reputation of being explosive.

Steve

 

[elkaholic]

Kind of surprised by the Berger pics. Fairly high velocity, little bullet deformation. I thought they were more frangible than that. I have never used them, but thought they had a reputation of being explosive.

Steve

I think they are explosive, but the question is at what velocity and upon hitting what? It seems that there might be a little more narrow window where they either explode or don't expand? I'll do some more testing with water and I think that should firm things up a bit........Rich

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Interesting results Rich. Like Steve, I would have thought the Bergers and probably the SMK's would have expanded. I always figured the narrow meplat would lead to inconsistent results, but for the most part, figured they would expand at least 90% of the time. It would be interesting to see a little larger sample size. Am looking forward to the water tests.

I had an idea for water tests that I might try someday. Make a plywood box about 4' long by about maybe 1 1/2' square. 2x2's could be used to fasten the plywood at all the joints. Glue and screw it all together. Seal the inside joints and surfaces with polyurethane or driveway sealer (cheaper) to water proof it. Cut a hole in the shooting face and put a block of self sealing foam (like archer's use for targets) over the hole in the face to shoot through. You would probably want to put some sort of pressure relief in the lid, like a piece of PVC pipe sticking up so the box doesn't blow up.

Not real sure how well the self sealing foam will hold up. Construction foam board might be another option and cheaper but might not seal off as well as the self sealing stuff.

 

[Pdvdh]

I had an idea for water tests that I might try someday. Make a plywood box about 4' long by about maybe 1 1/2' square. 2x2's could be used to fasten the plywood at all the joints. Glue and screw it all together. Seal the inside joints and surfaces with polyurethane or driveway sealer (cheaper) to water proof it. Cut a hole in the shooting face and put a block of self sealing foam (like archer's use for targets) over the hole in the face to shoot through. You would probably want to put some sort of pressure relief in the lid, like a piece of PVC pipe sticking up so the box doesn't blow up.

Not real sure how well the self sealing foam will hold up. Construction foam board might be another option and cheaper but might not seal off as well as the self sealing stuff.

I would leave the entire top uncovered - or else expect the unit to be good for no more than one shot from a 7mm-300 mag class cartridge. Water being an non-compressible fluid, I would wager that the pressure spike of an expanding bullet will be too great to be relieved through any constricted area. But video the first shot if you seal the top!

 

[Pdvdh]

Kind of surprised by the Berger pics. Fairly high velocity, little bullet deformation. I thought they were more frangible than that. I have never used them, but thought they had a reputation of being explosive.

Steve

I fully expect the Bergers will come unglued when they impact water, based on the wound paths I've seen on game. But looking forward to learning how they perform. They shrapnel quite consistently and reliably on the frail ribcage of game animals - broadside hits. That's been my experience. No different than Berger's description of their most typically observed, on-game, wound cavities.

 

[elkaholic]

Interesting results Rich. Like Steve, I would have thought the Bergers and probably the SMK's would have expanded. I always figured the narrow meplat would lead to inconsistent results, but for the most part, figured they would expand at least 90% of the time. It would be interesting to see a little larger sample size. Am looking forward to the water tests.

I had an idea for water tests that I might try someday. Make a plywood box about 4' long by about maybe 1 1/2' square. 2x2's could be used to fasten the plywood at all the joints. Glue and screw it all together. Seal the inside joints and surfaces with polyurethane or driveway sealer (cheaper) to water proof it. Cut a hole in the shooting face and put a block of self sealing foam (like archer's use for targets) over the hole in the face to shoot through. You would probably want to put some sort of pressure relief in the lid, like a piece of PVC pipe sticking up so the box doesn't blow up.

Not real sure how well the self sealing foam will hold up. Construction foam board might be another option and cheaper but might not seal off as well as the self sealing stuff.

I made a box VERY similar to what you described one time to test in a slurry. Yes, You do want to keep the lid loose! My ultra had a habit of causing frequent repair work at around 5000 lt/lbs.