Bullet Penetration .44 Mag vs .375 H&H

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by FEENIX, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]WOW! This is quite a claim from Garrett ... Is this for real??? Please help me understand. Thanks.

    (C&P - Garrett Cartridges Inc.)

    Are our 44 Magnum loads really capable of handling grizzly?
    The answer is yes, in the hands of a reliable shot. From a comparative point of view, our 44 Magnum Hammerheads provide far more penetration than the 300-grain NosIer Partition fired from the 375 Holland & Holland. Also, both bullets present an extremely blunt front end (meplat). Our 44 bullets also offer far greater security from bullet fracture or deflection than any expanding bullet. Since beginning production in 1988 we have had many customers defend themselves from grizzlies, and always our 44 Magnum ammo has provided super-deep penetration, generally to the hips on a frontally shot bear (even when the skull is engaged.)

    Garrett .330gr .44 MAG off 7.5" barrel, MV=1400 FPS, ME=1435 FT/LBS

    vs

    Nosler .300gr .375 H&H off 24" barrel, MV=2450 FPS, ME=3998 FT/LBS


    [/FONT]
     
  2. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

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    Obviously a poor choice of bullet selection in the 375 H&H.
     

  3. comfisherman

    comfisherman Well-Known Member

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    well, the first thing that hits me is how fast that 330 is going.

    I've seen that fast with that size bullet, but not in a 7 inch barrel (ruger 44 mag rifle). Seems like they must be runing the ragged edge of pressure to get that. I've no doubt that a good alloy cas bullet does penetrate but as a primary over a 375?

    As for use on big bears.... their little paragraph says it has been used as defense for grizzly bears. Heck if I'm close to a big bear anything that goes bang would make me feel better, but the 375 with a partition/a frame is the gold standard.

    In a hunting situation with a guy packing a 375 or bigger next to me sure id try a 44mag. Angry old bear that is accidentially jumped when were beach combing on the Alaska Peninsula.... I'll just pack the ol 375.

    To each their own. Mine is a 375 ruger cranking partitions to 2780....
     
  4. HARPERC

    HARPERC Well-Known Member

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    If penetration is the only criteria, yes I believe that a hard cast 44 may out penetrate many expanding bullets, including the .375 300 partition.
    However, if penetration is all we are looking for a .375 350 grain Barnes Banded Solid will compete more favorably, as will a 385 grain Rhino in .375. The old 350 originals also create a long wound channel.
    While I've been favorably impressed with 300 grain .44's, in our Ruger carbines, the impact of the old H&H is visibly more.
    If Ruger ever makes a stainless version of the semi-auto, with a synthetic stock, pistol grip, collapsible buttstock it would be a tough to beat fishing gun.
     
  5. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    2 + 2 = 5

    For very large values of 2 and very small values of 5. :)
     
  6. paphil

    paphil Well-Known Member

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    I think it has everything to do with expansion. I recall reading about a guy shooting elephants with a 22-250 with full metal jackets and also another story about loading the bullet backwards to prevent expansion , again in 22-250 to shoot elephants. Doubling the diameter by the bullet expanding nearly quadrouples the surface area, causing a larger wound channel but but greatly reducing penetration. The more the bullet expands, the less it penetrates. A ballance must be achieved between velocity, expansion and desired penetration. That is why there are varmet bullets that expand on impact and big game bullets that expand more slowly, The bigger and tougher the game the less expansion and the more penetration that is desired. That said I believe the 44 mag would penetrate further but the H&H would deliver more energy because it starts with more and both shed all their energy in the targeted animal. :D
     
  7. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    The I fully understand the difference in bullet design. However, the complimentary energy-velocity difference between the two is massive.

    Case in point, check out this video (not the same as the Garrett's but close concept for comparison) ...

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDc61sq-H-A]The .44 Mag and the effects of a 405 Grain Bullet - YouTube[/ame]

    I believe the .300 gr partition off the .375 H&H will penetrate better than the .44 Mag on the same test.
     
  8. T3-OleMan

    T3-OleMan Well-Known Member

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    Keeping it simple: Bean counter analysis: 3 perfect shots to center mass and no exit holes!
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Garrett .330gr .44 MAG off 7.5" barrel, MV=1400 FPS, ME=1435 FT/LBS (x) 3= 4K FT/LBS = Sugar Ray Leonard punches[/FONT]


    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Nosler .300gr .375 H&H off 24" barrel, MV=2450 FPS, ME=3998 FT/LBS (x) 3= 12K FT/LBS = Mike Tyson punches[/FONT]



    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]I think the Bear would have a lot more fight left in him if Sugar Ray smacked him 3 times (center mass) in stead of Iron Mike. That rounds up to 3 times the SHOCK to the Cen.Nev.Sys. with the .375 as to the .44! If~n you are lucky enough to get off 3 perfect shots the .375 would leave you more options in the next 9,657,289,495,235 NAN-O-SECONDS before he kneels to say “LORD I thank you for the food that I am about to receive” the end! :rolleyes:[/FONT]
     
  9. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Starting energy is a meaningless parameter in the world of penetration. What means something is starting momentum. A hard cast bullet does not deform and therefore momentum is unaffected by deformation losses. Hydro shock on a large animal is pretty meaningless.

    Here is a little stupid video I made one day when I was waiting for the evening to come for bowhunting elk. But it illustrates the problem of expanding bullets and penetration

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69cc3igN7OU&list=UUgYpXTM8EypQRgbUh-rhgVg&index=3&feature=plcp]G34vsASPEN.m2ts - YouTube[/ame]

    If ever you get cornered by a grove of aspens remember to use the FMJs to defend yourself. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  10. Varminator 911

    Varminator 911 Well-Known Member

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    With properly designed 65% meplat flat point solids the 375 will penetrate much farther than the 44 mag.

    I'd think the 300 Barnes TSX in 375 would equal or exceed the 44 mag for penetration and with more killing power.

    Hell if you're going to shoot a solid then a 1.5 oz solid in a 12 gauge would put the 44 mag to shame. Blow twice as big a hole clear thru a bear stem to stern.

    To me the 375 vs 44 mag is an apples to oranges comparison. 44 mag to 12 ga is fairer for bear protection and penetration.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  11. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    Here's what I got from Nosler ...

     
  12. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    It's ALL about bullet construction. With equally constructed bullets, the 375 wins. Velocity also plays a big role and not necessarily that speed wins! Try shooting a Berger vld into some media at 1500' vs 3000' and the 1500' load will out penetrate every time because it stays together......Rich