Bullet BC at medium range[300] yd

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by jason frazier, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. jason frazier

    jason frazier Member

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    I have been studying ballistics for 20 years, and this still baffles me. Why would anybody chose a lower bc bullet at medium range.[300]yds for example. What advantage is there in a 450bc bullet at 300 yds, over a 500 bc bullet. If you have enough twist to stabalize the 500, or 600 bc bullet, then why even bother shooting a lower BC bullet. Any high bc bullet should be asleep IE stable by the time it gets to 300 yards.
     
  2. X-man

    X-man Well-Known Member

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    Accuracy?
     

  3. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I agree with X-man out to only 300(short range). For a lot of shooting at this range I would chose flat base BR bullets, which are very low in BC, but more accurate.
    For longer ranges BC does come into play more & more until it trumps short range accuracy.
    This, due to wind(the true devil in LR).

    Now someone out there will claim that accuracy trumps everything..
    I'll just assume they shoot 6PPC at 1kyd then, and not worth a damn.
     
  4. azsugarbear

    azsugarbear Well-Known Member

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    In the old days, it had more to do with the type of bullet than the BC. You can still see some vstiges of this today between the Berger and the Barnes. Two different types of bullets. Due to the construction/materials of the Barnes, it will never have the higher BC of the Berger.

    Now, I am probably going to take some flak on this, but I will say it anyway: I believe the Barnes to have substantially better terminal performance at 50 - 300 yards than the Berger. If you are going after dangereous game, or the trophy of a lifetime - and do not anticipate your shot to be over 400 yards, the Barnes (with the lower BC) wins every time in my book.
     
  5. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    To make gains in one area you almost always have to compromise in other areas.

    If I was a point blank to 500 yd hunter I would choose a 300 WSM vs a 300 RUM and my bullet would be a 180 E-Tip vs a CE or Berger bullet which have higher BC's

    The 180 E-Tip bullets below were recovered from partially frozen ground behind 400 and 500 yd targets shot from a 300 RUM. I like them because they show excellent terminal performance and they are tougher than typical copper mono's because they are made from guilded metal much like jacket material. I have also found them easy to accurately load for.

    Their mediocre BC don't make them a good LR choice unfortunately.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  6. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    B.C. has never killed anything! It is one of many attributes of a bullet. Although as long range hunters on a long range forum, it is ONE of the things that assists in taking game, especially at long range which I certainly wouldn't consider 300 yards to be. Remember, the primary purpose of a bullet is to perform properly on an intended target, at a given range. If the bullet has the attributes necessary to do this and it has a high b.c., by all means use it. If the bullet has a high b.c. but is too thin skinned for the target at 300 yards, use something else. For example: would you rather shoot a 1200 lb. Alaskan brown bear at 300 yards with a Hornady A-Max or an Innerbond?.......Rich
     
  7. jason frazier

    jason frazier Member

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    i appreciate all of your comments on my thread, it has been insightful. Irealize i have always been a black and white thinker. Iam just trying to wrap my mind around how a lower bc bullet can be more accurate than a high bc. So what i get out of this is i am putting too much importance on bc, and it isn't as crucial at shorter ranges out to 300 anyway. OK so then it could be possible to shoot a better group with my 22-250 at 3800 fps and a50gr bullet at 300 yards, over say a 190 grmatchking at2500 fps in my 3006, with a15 mph wind??? any takers on that little comparison????
     
  8. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about benchrest shooting or hunting?

    This is Long Range Hunting and the emphasis is on maximizing long range reach and accuracy and terminal performance.

    If you are counting X ring scores @ 300 yds vs killing a deer @ 300 yds or...

    If you are counting X ring scores @ 1000 yds vs killing an elk @ 1000 yds, you are talking about completely different goals which would place a completely different emphasis on the tools used.

    A 300 WSM that shoots sub MOA 180 gr bullets in excess of 3000 fps would be my pick for all around lower 48 game rifle to 500 yds while maybe a 6mmPPC would be my choice for 600 yd BR.

    Bottom line is that BC is not always, and in fact most times is not the biggest factor in choosing a bullet for the task at hand. BC does not equate to accuracy.
     
  9. BigBboy25

    BigBboy25 Well-Known Member

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    BC also tells you nothing about the terminal performance of a bullet. Some people like a lot of weight retention (i.e Barne's, GMX, E-Tip) and others like a lot of shed weight and fast expansion (i.e. SST, Ballistictip, A-Max). Different strokes for different folks. The accuracy notion of flat base bullets also comes to mind, but others have addressed that enough.
     
  10. X-man

    X-man Well-Known Member

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    One is a hunting round the other is not? I dont understand?
    I'm not sure where you are going with that post so I will let you illuminate your thoughts a bit more.

    FWIW I dont think any real gains come from the bullet until about 600 yards or so.
    Take my 338Edge with 225gr Accubonds @ 3300fps and 300gr Bergers@ 2850fps....Run the numbers and you will see what I mean. The 300Berger Berger is outstanding at real distance, but inside 600 yards (or more) I will take the smashing penetration of the Accubond every time. Inside of 400 yards it is way easier to hit with the 225 Accubond...Like I said...Don't take it from me.. run the numbers for yourself ;)
     
  11. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Believe it or not, everything about firearm design/ballistics/results, begins with a chosen bullet.
    That is, for the best in results a chosen bullet affects the entire design of the shooting system, and of coarse the bullet choice is tied to application. Your potential is immediately set.
    For example;
    If you need to kill brown bears, your not going to put together a shooting system -with needed bullets, that will shoot anywhere near the accuracy possible from little mid-weight flat base bullets used in point blank BR. You can try it, or look around and notice NOBODY has ever pulled it off.
    There are a bunch of reasons for this, and BC resulting can be little more than a side effect of design, or a major factor in real world LR accuracy.

    A few factors to consider;
    Admit right up front that you cannot call and hold-off for wind perfectly over distance shooting. With this you add hold-off error to the gun's potential in MOA of accuracy.
    Now a 1/2moa gun at 300yd rarely produces 1/2moa at 1kyd. And you could not produce 1/2moa at 1kyd, in any wind, with a 1/8moa shooting 6PPC(wrong bullets). This is why nobody competes at 1kyd with THE cartridge widely implied the most accurate in existence(6PPC).
    With High BC bullets the penalty for wind miss-hold is reduced, taking you back towards the gun's actual accuracy potential. It's the reason LR BR shooters universally use heavy for cal hi-BC bullets(whether they know this or not). They don't use these bullets because they're the most accurate(they aren't).
    Why aren't hi-BC bullets more accurate? Well, BC=weight=recoil, which does nothing good for accuracy. BC=Boat tail=lower quality muzzle release, which is factor causing bullet moments to dampen out(go to sleep). That ain't great for accuracy either. Take 2 bullets of the similar ogive radius, and same weight, but one flat base and the other boat tails. Same barrel and tuned seating depth.
    The flat base bullets will shoot better -up close(like 300yds) despite the cost in BC.
    And you will shoot with better results at 1kyd with the higher BC boat tail bullets, way more often.

    Terminal performance is another really important consideration.
    But personally, I take accuracy over terminal performance. 2yrs ago I comfortably took a white tail with a 50gr flat base BR bullet(Jayner) out of a 223rem at 485yds(brain shot). This, with my son's Cooper. In no way is this a preferred setup for LR shooting(or for deer), and I limit my shots with it to 500yds even if calm.
     
  12. jason frazier

    jason frazier Member

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    Thanks MIKe cr for your reply. I am beginning to accept that bc isn't always the best guage at closer ranges.. There's a 100-200 varmint for score match this weekend at my range. I am gonna load up some 70 gr sierra mk's in my old 1951 Fn mauser,6mm rem 1;8 twist. It's not a short range gun, but maybe they will let me shoot just for fun. If not i will just shoot some groups on the 100 range next to the PPC pros. I like to shoot the shit with those guys, and watch them get pissed off when they miss the stupid dot.