Budget build, advice please

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by busse fan, May 16, 2011.

  1. busse fan

    busse fan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    May 16, 2011
    Hello all,

    Long time lurker, first time poster. I have read many threads on here with great interest and after reading a post that detailed how to change a savage barrel, I have decided to try my hand at building a long range rig on a budget. Being able to rebarrel myself means I don’t have to send the gun away to a smith and pay lots of money to put a new one on which is why I’m not opposed to something like a 7stw or 7rum. I would like to build this rifle around the 180gr bergers on a 28” or 30” tube to get 3200 fps or so with the 180gr bergers. Will a 7 stw do that? I’ve shot my friends 338 lm out to a mile on steel and would like to, after much practice of course, shoot deer, elk and moose out to 1000m. Elk least frequently, deer most often and moose now and then. I am not really looking to argue about whether the 7mm at stw or rum velocities can kill those critters. I believe it can if I pick my shots (I’ve killed moose with my 257 weatherby as well) and put the bullet where it counts. I realize full well that a 338 edge et. al, will do so with more authority but since elk and moose are only sometimes on the menu and I can’t afford another long range gun, I’d rather not shoot deer at 1k with a 300gr smk.

    My next question is which action to use for this build. I live in Canada and finding the old 110 rum actions is near impossible so I was thinking I would buy a new gun, sell the barrel and stock and use the action for the build. Which savage model will lend itself best to doing this build? Will any of the magazine options on currently available savage guns allow 180gr to be seated properly or is this strictly a single shot option?

    Third I would like to hear some stock recommendations as well if possible.
    So to summarize what rfle would you use if you were buying a rifle with the intention of selling the barrel and stock (unless something like an accustock is good enough?). Will this same action also work for a 338 edge barrel if I ever do a 338 edge on the same gun, just swap the barrel from the 7mm? Will any of the factory available magazines fit a stw or rum with 180gr bergers or is this single shot only? What stock do you recommend? Optics will be NXS 5.5-22 my friend said I can use as a loaner until I have the cash for my own. Do I need a rail? 10moa enough?

    Thanks for any advice!
     
  2. Imho

    Imho Member

    Messages:
    19
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    I don't feel so alone anymore. :)

    I'm pretty much going through the same process only favouring .30 cal options rather then 7mm. The more I learn the less it seems likely there is a perfect solution. 110 RUM actions are like hen's teeth in Australia too, and it looks like there will be OAL issues with the Savage magazine when looking at WBY and RUM options.

    I'll lurk with interest.
     

  3. smokingunn

    smokingunn Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Dont discount a 7mm rem mag, have a look at a ballistics chart, a 180gr berger has a pretty impressive flight path loaded to rem. mag velocities, i would imagine an stw would be that much better, Im building a 7mm rem mag as we speak, savage 111 donor action, rifle basix trigger set to about 8oz, farrell 20 moa base, shilen 26" bull contour ss select barrel, choate tactical stock, my goal is to have a rifle capable of decent accuracy at 1 mile without spending a fortune.
     
  4. LouBoyd

    LouBoyd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    770
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Compare the case length and case capacity of these four cartridges:
    --------------------------case---------case
    --------------------------length------capacity
    7mm Rem Mag --2.50"-------81 grain
    7mm Dakota------2.49"-------89 grain
    7mm STW----------2.85"------97 grain
    7mm RUM----------2.85"----112 grain

    Certainly the full length magnums are more powerful and give higher velocities. Something to watch for though when planning a rifle to shoot heavy VLD bullets is the cartridge overall length.

    The 7mm STW and 7mm RUM cartridge with a 180 Berger is too long to comfortably fit in a 3.6" magazine for appropriate seating depth. In a Rem 700 long action a little machining will allow a longer aftermarket magazine, like from Wyatts. I don't know the magazine length of the various Savage actions, but it's something that you should consider before starting your project. The 7mm Rem Mag is a fine cartrige in a 3.6" magazine with 180 Bergers. . Yes, the larger cartridges give 200-300 yards more range for energy but not much more for accuracy.

    The 7mm Dakota gives more energy than a Rem Mag for the same length case but a little more difficulty getting brass and barrels.

    Personally i think the 7mm RUM has more case capacity than I want in that caliber. It's getting dfficult to get efficient case fills and barrel life is falling off rapidly from throat erosion. I think the 7mm STW is about the largest practical 7mm cartridge for hunting though I'd like it in a shorter fatter cartridge. A 7mm RUM shortend to 2.5" case length would be just about right for a 3.6" magazine and a 26" to 28" barrel.
    Anyone make reamers and dies for that?
     
  5. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,612
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Talk to SinArms on here about the 7mm Sin he is developing. That will be the one to have in 7mm. It fits on a 30-06 length action with 6-8 grains more powder than the STW. Extreme short fat case for seating the 180's with a bunch of powder behind them. My 338 Sin is done and 264 Sin is next. Should hit close to 3500 fps with a .612 bc bullet. That ain't bad ballistics.
     
  6. 300R

    300R Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    363
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    I like the 7wsm on a long action,you can have it long throated,it won't be quite as fast as the stw but neither will the barrel life!!:)
    Oh yeah and don't rule out the plain old 284win a lot of bench guys are doing good things with this round and getting around the 3000fps mark with the 180's and you wont need a magnum action for this one either.
     
  7. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,206
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    As 300R stated I think your best bet is to put a long throated 7mm WSM on any standard shank savage long action, you will not need a controlled round feed bolt head or special magazine, use a quality 28" sendero or larger contour stainless 1:9 twist and it'll take the lead over a 7mm rem, fit in the magazine, have longer barrel life, and do all you need it for.
     
  8. Fitch

    Fitch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    478
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    I don't know if they are available for sale in Canada, but here (US) Savage actions are offered for sale. They offer the Savage long action, I think it's the same one as on my Savage 112 BVSS in 7mm Rem Mag.

    You might look for one of the Savage 112 BVSS rifles on Gun Broker in .300WinMAG - they are no longer made but they have a stock that works well when bedded and can be fitted with bolt heads for about any cartridge. I bought mine, whcih is 7mmWinMAG, new in the box for $600.00 plus shipping and transfer fee on Gun Broker.

    I bedded it, recrowned it, loaded up some ammo, and it shoots like this:

    [​IMG]

    With the factory barrel. I was going to rebarrel it but frankly don't see the need to do that.

    Fitch
     
  9. BoilerUP

    BoilerUP Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    71
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    After doing a LOT of 6-6.5-7mm research, you might consider the 7 SAUM.

    Looks like you can get 3000fps with the 180VLD and close to 3200fps with the 162 AMax/BTHP, with a little less powder/recoil than a 7RM or 7WSM.
     
  10. ntg

    ntg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    544
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Well I've been looking a lot into .284 cartridges.
    Personally I'm thinking 284Win or 7mmWSM. They're "enough" in my opinion. I do wish the 7WSM had a longer neck and that is one thing the 7SAUM has going for it. Capacity wise, it's between the 284Win and 7WSM. It would be on the list but it's getting to be more difficult to get brass and I'm worry it will get worse. I also think there's nothing wrong with a 280Rem, especially the 280AI.

    Although I have no plans to shoot benchrest, this is a helpful read IMO: 7mm Cartridge Guide
     
  11. busse fan

    busse fan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    May 16, 2011
    I guess another thung I'm looking at is what prefit savage barrels are available to me in canada. I founf mcgowen which is held in high esteem but turn out they don't even do 7 stw or 7 rum prefit. That is rather dissapointing. I can get shilen as well but I don't know if the make prefit in those calibers. If I can't get those in prefit then I'm not sure its worth rebarreling anyways. The 111 LRH comes in 7mm rm and I can't justify buying that and replacing the barrel with a 28" prefit in the came caliber. Buying something like a stevens will still cost me 200 or so for the action, 350 for a barrel 100 bucks for gauges and tools, 100 something for trigger and another few 100 for a stock. I will only build one if I can get a prefit in 7stw otherwise I can just buy a 7rm/wsm. Who makes prefit 7stw for savage actions? Shilen has tons of calibers ofered but I don't know what the do prefit wise.

    Thanks
     
  12. 300R

    300R Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    363
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Try pacnor,they do savage prefits.
     
  13. busse fan

    busse fan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    May 16, 2011
    I am sorry about all the spelling mistakes in my last post. I am a teacher and was on the bus with my kids to their swimming lessons. Very bumpy ride and can't see much on my blackberry screen!

    What kind of fps can I expect out of a 7 wsm with 180gr bergers in a 28" barrel? I could build this on a stevens 200 long action and use the magazine that came with the gun (7mm rm or 300 wm) to feed the 7 wsm with 180gr bergers? Regarding the coment about a long throat, what information do I need to tell the guy I'm ordering the barrel from to get that part right?
     
  14. smokingunn

    smokingunn Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Shilen offers pre threaded and chambered barrels, for all of the calibers offered on there list which includes 7mm stw, beware though there may be a looong waiting list.