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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 116984" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>Bart B,</p><p></p><p>I have no dog in this fight but your 61,000 psi number is interesting to me as you say this is the limit of the 300 RUM. I was always under the impression that it was rated at 64,000 psi like most other modern high intestity magnums.</p><p></p><p>A quick look though the Hodgdon loading data for the 300 RUM reveals many loads that go right up to this pressure level. Now I am sure Hodgdon is not loading to +SAAMI specs and I know for a fact they would not print actual pressure data that was over SAAMI spec so I suspect your numbers are not correct just judging from what is actually printed by Hodgdon.</p><p></p><p>Not sure what you mean by the definition of partial FL sizing has changed either, AS far as I know it means the same it has always ment. No experienced loader I know has any other definition then the one you discribe, fill us in on the current definition of PFLS that is different then what it has always been.</p><p></p><p>So what type of rifles are these that are letting loose all the time at your range? Who made them? What were they chambered in. I can tell you for a fact that one of my Rem 700 rifles that was totally accurized and blue printed could not be blown up using appropriate powders and with no bore obstructions. You may well lock a bolt up but you will never blow a rifle apart.</p><p></p><p>If this is happening and you witnessed it, It was not from the use of appropriate powder be used with just to much powder. IT was to fast a burn rate powder being used incorrectly. This is the fault of the reloader not the rifle and not the chambering being used.</p><p></p><p>No modern, properly build rifle coudl be blown up using apporpriate powders for the chambering.</p><p></p><p>For example, if you had a Rem 700 chambered for the 300 RUM and you were using a 180 gr Accubond and Retumbo powder. You simply could not get enough retumbo in the case to case catastrophic rifle failure. Unless there was a bore obstruction. </p><p></p><p>Do not take that as saying you could not blow a primer pocket or lock up a bolt but those are totally different then a rifle coming completely apart like you say you have witnessed. Very few shooters have witnessed this and the ones that have occur from either a gross misuse of powder or a bore obstruction. </p><p></p><p>Most rifles that come apart are generally rifles that are not intended to be used with modern high pressure loads but since the owners of the rifles are to cheap to spring for the proper receiver you see receives such as the small ring mausers being chambered for modern high pressure rounds. Again, not the fault of the cartridge, not the fault of the rifle, its the fault of the cheap owner and gunsmith that did the work if there was actually a smith involved and not a basement barrel job which is common as well.</p><p></p><p>Also, your telling me you have up to 14 thou neck expansion on each firing, you only neck size and you never anneal and you can get 50 to 100 firings per case. Ya know that this tells me, if your telling the trueth, your loading to about 45,000 psi in pressure because at 50,000 to 55,000 psi, cartridge brass permanently deforms. That means your case necks will expand to fill the neck of the chamber and stay there. </p><p></p><p>This also means that they need to be sized back down 14 thou so that they will hold a bullet securely enough to be useful. Just this expansion and resizing alone will work harden case necks. The thinner the necks the quicker this will happen and the sooner you will get neck splits without annealing.</p><p></p><p>Add to this the heat of actually firing a round and this will accelerate the process even more.</p><p></p><p>Sorry my friend, Unless your loading puff loads in your 308, I simply do not believe your 50 to 100 firings per case without annealing or FL sizing. At some point you will have to bump the shoulder or chambering will get extremely tight once the case begins to temper from heat and looses its elastic properties. This will occur within 10 firings no matter what load you use.</p><p></p><p>Again, I really do not care what position you take on this subject but you have made a few comments that simply do not hold water with real world experience on my end.</p><p></p><p>No flame intended here so please do not take offense but I thought something had to be said about some of your comments and I was actually suprised you have not been called on them already.</p><p></p><p>Kirby Allen(50)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 116984, member: 10"] Bart B, I have no dog in this fight but your 61,000 psi number is interesting to me as you say this is the limit of the 300 RUM. I was always under the impression that it was rated at 64,000 psi like most other modern high intestity magnums. A quick look though the Hodgdon loading data for the 300 RUM reveals many loads that go right up to this pressure level. Now I am sure Hodgdon is not loading to +SAAMI specs and I know for a fact they would not print actual pressure data that was over SAAMI spec so I suspect your numbers are not correct just judging from what is actually printed by Hodgdon. Not sure what you mean by the definition of partial FL sizing has changed either, AS far as I know it means the same it has always ment. No experienced loader I know has any other definition then the one you discribe, fill us in on the current definition of PFLS that is different then what it has always been. So what type of rifles are these that are letting loose all the time at your range? Who made them? What were they chambered in. I can tell you for a fact that one of my Rem 700 rifles that was totally accurized and blue printed could not be blown up using appropriate powders and with no bore obstructions. You may well lock a bolt up but you will never blow a rifle apart. If this is happening and you witnessed it, It was not from the use of appropriate powder be used with just to much powder. IT was to fast a burn rate powder being used incorrectly. This is the fault of the reloader not the rifle and not the chambering being used. No modern, properly build rifle coudl be blown up using apporpriate powders for the chambering. For example, if you had a Rem 700 chambered for the 300 RUM and you were using a 180 gr Accubond and Retumbo powder. You simply could not get enough retumbo in the case to case catastrophic rifle failure. Unless there was a bore obstruction. Do not take that as saying you could not blow a primer pocket or lock up a bolt but those are totally different then a rifle coming completely apart like you say you have witnessed. Very few shooters have witnessed this and the ones that have occur from either a gross misuse of powder or a bore obstruction. Most rifles that come apart are generally rifles that are not intended to be used with modern high pressure loads but since the owners of the rifles are to cheap to spring for the proper receiver you see receives such as the small ring mausers being chambered for modern high pressure rounds. Again, not the fault of the cartridge, not the fault of the rifle, its the fault of the cheap owner and gunsmith that did the work if there was actually a smith involved and not a basement barrel job which is common as well. Also, your telling me you have up to 14 thou neck expansion on each firing, you only neck size and you never anneal and you can get 50 to 100 firings per case. Ya know that this tells me, if your telling the trueth, your loading to about 45,000 psi in pressure because at 50,000 to 55,000 psi, cartridge brass permanently deforms. That means your case necks will expand to fill the neck of the chamber and stay there. This also means that they need to be sized back down 14 thou so that they will hold a bullet securely enough to be useful. Just this expansion and resizing alone will work harden case necks. The thinner the necks the quicker this will happen and the sooner you will get neck splits without annealing. Add to this the heat of actually firing a round and this will accelerate the process even more. Sorry my friend, Unless your loading puff loads in your 308, I simply do not believe your 50 to 100 firings per case without annealing or FL sizing. At some point you will have to bump the shoulder or chambering will get extremely tight once the case begins to temper from heat and looses its elastic properties. This will occur within 10 firings no matter what load you use. Again, I really do not care what position you take on this subject but you have made a few comments that simply do not hold water with real world experience on my end. No flame intended here so please do not take offense but I thought something had to be said about some of your comments and I was actually suprised you have not been called on them already. Kirby Allen(50) [/QUOTE]
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