Boss on x bolts

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by dirtboy, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. dirtboy

    dirtboy Well-Known Member

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    I had a chance to spek with a browning repp. I ask him why arent they putting boss systems on the x bolts. He said It had to be re engineered, it didnt work on x bolts. Now whats really different on the xbolts other than action and triggers? I'm sure the bolt doesn't have a different barrel. I think maybe it so the still have a selling point with the a bolt, because it seems like the x bolt is a better more vesatile action. If you could get a boss on a x bolt why would you buy a Abolt if your getting a new gun. How many people will probably buy a another new x bolt once they come out with it on thier??

    Has anyone toyed around with the idea to put a boss system on an x bolt. The worst thing that can happen is you get a muzzle brake.lightbulb
     
  2. azsugarbear

    azsugarbear Well-Known Member

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    I've owned several A-Bolts and loved 'em all. Only had one A-Bolt with the BOSS and it was a constant problem. For some reason, the barrel would never stay "tuned". The locknut on the BOSS was solid, but my groups would widen over the period of 30-50 shots. I would adjust/"retune" the BOSS and the groups would tighten back up. I spoke with several other A-Bolt/BOSS owners about this problem and the results were mixed. Some experienced a degradation in accuracy corrected by subtle changes to the BOSS from time to time, while others found no problems. Once tuned to a load - it stayed accurate. Perhaps Browning dropped it from their X-Bolt because of mixed reviews. As a company, they are pretty good at marketing and sticking with what works - or what people want.
     

  3. dirtboy

    dirtboy Well-Known Member

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    I had a boss and my still has his. What we learned was if we got the same ammo from the same guy at the same time are groups were always good. We noticed when we bought the same ammo for another year of hunting we had to tweek the boss a little. So with that in mind we shot the gun in anyway for the new hunting season and just rolled with it. Something to take in consideration. The boss seem great just senstivegun)lightbulb
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    The reason engineering is involved is because BOSS is a SYSTEM that includes a tuner, matched rubber bedding, & stock.
    You can't just screw one these tuners out there, or even Browning's, on the end of a barrel and pretend to have BOSS.
     
  5. dirtboy

    dirtboy Well-Known Member

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    yeah that what I hear, i just dont buy it. From what i gather. The barrel, stocks are still the same. just the actions are different. I doubt their going to change the bedding system from abolt to x bolt. but even so. The BOSS from what I undersatnd was ment to chang and balance barrel harmonics. I dont think that would have anthing really to do with the action, if it was that critical base on the action then I would say why dont you have to use a certin style of scope, because having diffrent scope on your action would hinder how your boss works. I just think its a typical selling point of the rifle. It wouldn't surprise me if they had a contract to produce so many a bolts for so many years and if you put the boss on the x bolt sales would go down to much. just my thoughts. My barrel is made by the same company and is the same size OD as the one on my dads a bolt. Why one couldn't put a boss on it I dont know. I just want to see if anyone has tried it:cool:
     
  6. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    For one, you don't have to post a pic of a gun with replies..
    Second, you are clueless about BOSS by your own admission. Yet you argue about the answer to your question!

    "Now whats really different on the xbolts other than action and triggers?"
    W/regard to BOSS, it's bedding(Flexane94).
    Read their patent, and consider what Browning reps are trying to tell you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  7. dirtboy

    dirtboy Well-Known Member

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    Well for one the pic that comes up will do that with every post for some reason it does that I dont know what I did to make that happen like that ,that big, Sorry if it bothers you. So what your saying is Flexane94 a rubberized compound is whats stopping the boss from working on x bolts. I've seen a forum talking about that although I couldn't find anything on brownings website. It doesn't seem like to big of an obstacle for a company like browing to install by now. Its not like the x bolt just came out yeaterday. They probably use the compoud to cut the vibration down. I wonder what glass bedding would do? And hey com down no need to say something about my rifle pic up thier anyway. I'm on here to get some solid info and have some fun enjoying what I like. I get enough critisim from my girl when ever I mention hunting. Hey do you work for browning? Didn't mean to offend any browning workers.gun)lightbulb..lol!
     
  8. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I'm not upset, or trying to upset you.
    Old rifle companies like Browning don't just slap together fad combinations in every form, for every shooter. They develop their products to a standard they can stick with in the long run.
    The A-Bolts have served us well for quite awhile.

    Browning isn't perfect though. They do need to improve. And they should start by communicating with customers.
     
  9. Buano

    Buano Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason you can't do a custom rifle, X-Bolt with a BOSS.

    As an engineer I can see that the Devcon Flexane 94 Flexible Urethane used to bed A-Bolts would tend to deaden vibrations the same way a LimbSaver on your barrel would. If you want to approximate the effect of the Flexane, simply put on a limbsaver band or put a drop or two of silicone sealant between your barrel & stock.

    The BOSS unit will tune the vibrations on ANY rifle, be it A-Bolt, X-Bolt, or even Mauser.

    I recently picked up a s/s Model 70 in .300 Weatherby with a BOSS. Haven't got a scope on it yet so I haven't shot it yet. If I like how it performs the rifle will stay in this configuration, if not I'll likely have a Christenson carbon wrapped barrel put on it & have a barrel & BOSS to sell. The BOSS is great in that it lets you control the harmonics of your rifle. A carbon-wrapped barrel has less flex & vibration when fired so controlling the vibration is less an issue.
     
  10. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    How do you know this?
    Could it be that 'less' flex & vibration, or higher frequency vibration, makes controlling of it with a tuner -very difficult..

    The object of tuning is not to reduce vibration, but to time bullet release within it.
     
  11. kfrye

    kfrye Well-Known Member

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    This is my understanding of the BOSS too, is that it allows the bullet to leave between the nodes of vibration.

    In the interest of stiffer barrels, I am wondering how the Model 70 Laredo heavy barrels wit BOSS units reacted to adjustment (and what their sweet spots were) compared to the sporter barrel counter parts.
     
  12. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    IMO, a tuner on anything but a Browning, as a BOSS, is merely a gimmick or an experiment.
    Yes, you can put an adjustable muzzle device on any gun, and affect your grouping.
    But without understanding/testing there is no reason to hope this amounts to 'tuning'.
    Browning has done this testing, and if memory serves me right, they promote an annual BOSS challenge tournament.

    The point blank BR crowd has found with THEIR tuners on their extremely limited guns, that tuners do not achieve the tune they normally have. ie. It doesn't affect the load they would use otherwise. Tuners for them have neither hurt performance nor helped, other than allowing abstract adjustments for atmospheric changes. You could probably do as much to a standard load with a few wraps of electric tape..
    This is because they are trying to reinvent a lightbulb with zero understanding, and no scientific method.
    Even the rimfire crowd, who need adjustment more than anyone, have failed to define a predictable system of muzzle device tuning.

    Browning is the only company to produce success here in that you can pick a load, and dial BOSS in to reasonable factory accuracy with it. This with a fairly wide variety in cartridges(not just one).
    I have an A-Bolt that came with BOSS originally and shot very well(223). I changed the stock to one of their Eclipse thumbholes and then had no luck dialing a tune. I didn't know about Flexane, but recognized that the original plastic stock had a hard rubber bedding. So with nothing to loose I bedded the Eclipse with ShooGoo(close match). From this point, I could dial in tune without issue, and the gun was even more accurate than original. I've since come to believe that nothing else could have made that barrel shoot so well.
    A few years later I damaged the barrel/BOSS in an accident, and rebarreled with a Pacnor in 6br(no tuner). Same bedding, but this combination will not shoot as good as the original with BOSS.
    Oh well.

    If I were to build a tuned gun today, I would use Browning's own non-muzzlebrake tuner on a lightweight contour, epoxy bed the pillars, and Flexane bed the action/barrel shank.
    Just a matter of finding a machinist that could finish the muzzle end for it. Or, if someone made an alternative to Browning's tuner that was as good, I might go with theirs. Haven't seen that yet.
     
  13. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    The boss system was designed to allow a factory rifle with a factory contour to shoot different
    types of ammo with some degree of accuracy by adding weight that can be moved (Tuned) to
    some degree. As far as the muzzle break part of the system it is a decent brake.

    A lot of people find that if they just screw the boss all the way in and lock it down it works
    pretty good.

    With a slightly heaver barrel a regular muzzle brake it will work better and reduce recoil better.

    I personally don't find the need for a boss system because I reload and can tune the load to
    the rifle.

    So I would just screw on one of the many good brakes and be done with it.

    Just my opinion.

    J E CUSTOM
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  14. happylilcuss

    happylilcuss Well-Known Member

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    I agree with JE. I have a few brownings and I have replaced all of the brakes with the boss CR. These are hunting rifles and the boss is sooooo loud that I cant shoot them without hearing protection. The first year I had a boss I was standing about two feet beside and five feet behind a big pondorosa pine and took a bull. I was deaf for 2 full days. I thought I would never hear again. Since then I always wear hearing protection when using these rifles and like I said replaced all with the CR. I dont need the break since these are non magnum rifles and the CR stilll allows you to tune the barrel.. However I dont mess with them because I tune the load instead.
    As far as the xbolt goes I was talking to the browning rep and he told me "The xbolt is new but in reality it is not as high of quality as the abolt. Basically it is a lesser version with some neat gimmiks."