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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Bore/inside barrel treatment question
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<blockquote data-quote="Mikecr" data-source="post: 1109946" data-attributes="member: 1521"><p>I'm sticking by my earlier declarations. Anyone here is welcome to poll Benchrest Central & I'm confident you'll find the same.</p><p></p><p>While many SR BR shooters do clean between relays, they foul their bores before taking record shots. LR BR shooters, in many formats, establish good fouling and leave it alone through multiple relays or even a match.</p><p>Tactical competitors often tout huge strings before cleaning, and many claim COPPER fouling is needed. But IMO this is really them seeing a lot of copper in their bores -by the time they clean them, and fails tests by virtue that both SR & LR BR shooters do not allow much if any copper buildup.</p><p></p><p>Various powders produce different fouling. If you work up loads for a bore with two different powders(like Reloader -vs- Hodgdon), you can't just switch back & forth with these loads, without cleaning between, and get the best from both loads. You'll end up with unstable fouling if you do this, and it will affect results (where you're shooting well enough to detect it).</p><p></p><p>I do a lot of cold bore testing, and I know for sure there can be a significant difference between a squeaky clean bore and a fouled bore. Pretty sure many shooters know this(maybe millions), as it is common practice & advice to prefoul a gun before taking hunting shots. It's known that you should prefoul with the same powder before load development.</p><p>And ANY BR shooter that would include a squeaky clean shot in measured groups -is a fool (they ought to know better).</p><p></p><p>As far as copper fouling, it's pretty common to reach 'fouling out' from copper in factory barrels. That is, by 15-20rnds (example) grouping takes a hike. Here, good grouping doesn't return until that copper is removed, and stable fouling re-established. And you gotta get whatever cleaning agent back out of that bore before stable fouling can take a set. So often a factory gun will shoot a couple crappy groups from 'cleaned', followed by a couple good groups, and then the grouping falls all apart. Consider this with load development..</p><p>The same happens with well lapped aftermarket barrels, but the numbers are different across the board,, especially as managed by competitors. They shoot their best with the right amount of fouling(stable). It takes some number of shots to establish it. It lasts as long as it does. It doesn't last forever. Competitors(who are competitive) are all over this as they can see their best come & go.</p><p></p><p>Carbon, if allowed to build in excess, is the ultimate killer of bore performance.</p><p>Where you don't manage carbon, it builds & builds to constriction. By this time, removing it can damage the bore. Damned if you do or don't.. Where you don't let it build, you're rewarded with maximum accurate barrel life.</p><p>Moly might as well be considered a form of carbon as it builds(layers), and is nearly as difficult to remove by then. It's difficult to remove anyway, so use of moly should be done with a good moly cleaning and moly refouling plan(which is different).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mikecr, post: 1109946, member: 1521"] I'm sticking by my earlier declarations. Anyone here is welcome to poll Benchrest Central & I'm confident you'll find the same. While many SR BR shooters do clean between relays, they foul their bores before taking record shots. LR BR shooters, in many formats, establish good fouling and leave it alone through multiple relays or even a match. Tactical competitors often tout huge strings before cleaning, and many claim COPPER fouling is needed. But IMO this is really them seeing a lot of copper in their bores -by the time they clean them, and fails tests by virtue that both SR & LR BR shooters do not allow much if any copper buildup. Various powders produce different fouling. If you work up loads for a bore with two different powders(like Reloader -vs- Hodgdon), you can't just switch back & forth with these loads, without cleaning between, and get the best from both loads. You'll end up with unstable fouling if you do this, and it will affect results (where you're shooting well enough to detect it). I do a lot of cold bore testing, and I know for sure there can be a significant difference between a squeaky clean bore and a fouled bore. Pretty sure many shooters know this(maybe millions), as it is common practice & advice to prefoul a gun before taking hunting shots. It's known that you should prefoul with the same powder before load development. And ANY BR shooter that would include a squeaky clean shot in measured groups -is a fool (they ought to know better). As far as copper fouling, it's pretty common to reach 'fouling out' from copper in factory barrels. That is, by 15-20rnds (example) grouping takes a hike. Here, good grouping doesn't return until that copper is removed, and stable fouling re-established. And you gotta get whatever cleaning agent back out of that bore before stable fouling can take a set. So often a factory gun will shoot a couple crappy groups from 'cleaned', followed by a couple good groups, and then the grouping falls all apart. Consider this with load development.. The same happens with well lapped aftermarket barrels, but the numbers are different across the board,, especially as managed by competitors. They shoot their best with the right amount of fouling(stable). It takes some number of shots to establish it. It lasts as long as it does. It doesn't last forever. Competitors(who are competitive) are all over this as they can see their best come & go. Carbon, if allowed to build in excess, is the ultimate killer of bore performance. Where you don't manage carbon, it builds & builds to constriction. By this time, removing it can damage the bore. Damned if you do or don't.. Where you don't let it build, you're rewarded with maximum accurate barrel life. Moly might as well be considered a form of carbon as it builds(layers), and is nearly as difficult to remove by then. It's difficult to remove anyway, so use of moly should be done with a good moly cleaning and moly refouling plan(which is different). [/QUOTE]
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Bore/inside barrel treatment question
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