Bolt face open up

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by Good, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. Good

    Good Well-Known Member

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    Guys I searched but didn't find what I was looking for, or didn't know what I was looking at.

    I'm wondering what it will take to open my 30-06 bolt face (~.47") up to .585". I know nothing but am trying to learn for a new build. Thanks for any and all help.

    Tim.:D
     
  2. kiwi3006

    kiwi3006 Well-Known Member

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    I had my 30/06 opened up to .534 for a 7mm mag. It was quite simple, the smith installed a Sako extractor at the same time.
    To go to .585 is no different , however I don't know if you will find many smiths that will do it. A Chrome-moly reciever is better to use than a stainless one. The Lilja website under articles has a good reason why not to do it.
    I assume that if you are opening the bolt face up you are probably going to get the action trued etc. At the end of the day, if you work out what you could sell the action for and the cost of all the improvements a custom action will not be much more expensive and will have better resale value.

    Stu.
     

  3. NomadPilot

    NomadPilot Well-Known Member

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    You might also look at a whole new bolt with an appropriate bolt face and extractor already installed. PT&G and SSS offer these.
     
  4. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    +1 on buying a new bolt from PTG. better made, fluted, comes with M16 or Sako extractor. Save money and have better bolt.

    BH
     
  5. 21buck

    21buck Well-Known Member

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    Been there and done that. Would have been much better off purchasing a new bolt. Less problems and more money to devote to other factors i.e. mag followers, ramps etc. It might just be better to sell the current action and get one that is already to install. There are a multitude of small problems avoided. You will be happier in the end.
     
  6. Rimfire

    Rimfire Well-Known Member

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    +1
    Did one this year, put a PTG bolt in a 700 action 338 norma build. Fluted tight fit with M-16 extractor, best money I ever spent. The bolt body is sold by it self or complete in any diameter you want.
     
  7. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Opening up a bolt face is straight forward and common but first I would explore other options.

    What caliber do you wan't to go to ? (There are a lot of 30/06 based cartriges that will work
    in your rifle with little or no modification except changing the barrel). Example= 25/06, 270 win
    280 rem and more. (Look at bolt face diameters if the Gunsmithing section).

    If you wan't to go with a larger cartrige then it is a different beast. bolt face must be opened
    up new extractor must be installed and the action rails will have to be opened up.

    You can get a new bolt, but the handle will have to be welded on unless you can find one that
    is one piece. and the rails will still have to be opened if a larger case is used.

    Another option is to find a donor rifle with the correct bolt face and build off it.(This is normally
    the easiest way, because you have everything you need except the new barrel).

    Last but not least is to do a complete build using a custom action. it is also the most expensive
    so be sure that you know all that goes into a total custom rig before you choose this option.

    All of this work needs to be done by a good gunsmith so talk to several and get there opinions
    and prices and then decide what "YOU" want to build and then go back to the smith of your
    choice with the complete list of what you want and expect from him if he agrees with the process
    you want then your off and running.

    If this is your first build don't pay more than half of the price untill the rifle is finished because
    sometimes if they have all of the money they have no incentive to finish in a timely manner.

    The worst horror story I ever saw was a smith took 7 years and the owner had to pick up the
    parts and have someone else finish it.


    That's a lot but I hope it helps you decide.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  8. Kevin Cram

    Kevin Cram <b>SPONSOR</b>

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    Tim,

    With all these responses nobody bothered to ask what action you have. That can determine whether opening up the bolt face is feasible or if a aftermarket bolt would be better suited. Assuming it's a Remington 700, I've put 100's of sako extractors in Remington bolts for over 8 years and never had one let loose. The article on Lilja's website is referring to opening a Remington 700 bolt face up to accept a 378 Weatherby size case. I will open a bolt face on Remington 700 bolt and install a sako extractor up to the Ultra Mag size case. Cost wise it's absolutely cheaper to have the sako extractor conversion done, but done right, rather than purchase a aftermarket bolt. Here's a comparison.

    Remington 700 bolt with sako extractor conversion: $100
    bolt face bored out and bushing silver soldered in. (included)
    bolt face opened up to desired case size. (included)
    sako extractor slot milled in place. (included)
    sako extractor parts installed. (included)
    TOTAL $100



    Aftermarket bolt with non attached handle: $125
    Handle attached $55
    Sako Extractor Parts Kit $25
    TOTAL $205


    To see how a sako extractor is installed here's a video I put together to show the process. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f94/sako-extractor-installation-video-41016/
     
  9. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Kevin

    Agree with your figures except for one very important point.

    That is the existing unmodified bolt can be sold for $100-150 quite easily. I have sold several that way.

    That puts your out of pocket costs at less than $100 for a bolt that can be ordered sized correctly to the action, smaller firing pin hole, with the best placement of the extractor, smoother and even fluted.

    IMO that makes it a no brainer to go now days with the aftermarket bolt.

    BH
     
  10. Good

    Good Well-Known Member

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    Yeah sorry guys, it is a Rem 700 action in 30-06. I am hoping to turn it into a .338 Norma Mag. The overall goal is no more than 12lbs carry weight. I like the idea of short and stiff barrel so I'm going to play with the contour numbers to get to where I want. I'm torn between the KA Painkiller and the Muscle brakes also. I found a stock I like at Jet Supressors but after enquiring about the price that's a no-go. I was sending death downrange from a buddy's 300RUM with McMillan A5 the other day, but even it appears WAY overpriced, imho, so we'll see which direction I go from here.

    On another note, I appreciate all the positive information as it is a reason I am constantly on this site vs a few others! Please keep advice and warnings, etc. coming!

    Tim.
     
  11. Kevin Cram

    Kevin Cram <b>SPONSOR</b>

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    That is true, if someone would buy your old bolt for $150 it would be cheaper to go with a aftermarket. My thoughts though are who would buy a factory bolt for $150 when they could get a PTG bolt with non attached handle for $125 have the handle attached for $55 and a Sako Extractor Parts Kit $25 for a TOTAL of $205.

    Then you mentioned a smaller firing pin hole. Your now going to have to get the factory firing pin ground down or just buy a complete fire control for at least $55.

    The extractor placement in the PTG bolts is the same place I put them in factory Remington 700 bolts. The nice advantage is having the bolt ground to the size you want but the fluting will cost another $35.

    Please don't get me wrong PTG makes some really great bolts and I've used several but. You could go either way depending on what else you wanted to have done to your bolt. But to just have the bolt face opened up, it's cheaper to have a sako extractor installed in your factory bolt vs buying a whole entire new bolt just to get a different bolt face.
     
  12. NesikaChad

    NesikaChad Well-Known Member

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    Hi Tim,

    I'm assuming your using a Remington action. The work itself is pretty straight forward. It can be done a few different way. I use a CNC mill where's most use a manual lathe.

    Possible issues:

    If your action is a pushfeed Winchester for example the T slot extractor is going to require a little more work to modify in most cases.

    If your action a control round feed the extractor again will need some fussing over to get it right.

    If it's a Remington then the common practice is to install a Sako style extractor as the factory leaf spring set up won't work. THIS is where I have a really strong opinion.

    As a practice I will not service, install, or allow a twin lug, 90* rotating bolt in my shop if it's fitted with a Sako extractor. They are dangerous and I've seen two cases this year alone that resulted in surgery for both shooters.

    The riff lies in that the extractor was/is designed for a 3 lug gun. 3 lug guns have the lugs at a 120* index. This means only 60* of bolt rotation. The extractor this way is blocked off from the raceways of the receiver.

    A twin lug is at a 180* index and the lugs rotate 90*. With the bolt in battery the extractor is almost in direct line with the ejection port side raceway. Since the extractor is only retained by a spring loaded plunger there is vitually nothing preventing it from flying out of the gun in the event of a violent case rupture.

    Shit happens and when it happens with these little buggers people go to hospitals with alarming frequency.

    I advocate an AR-15 style extractor for this particular application. At least it is retained by a cross pin.

    Hope this helped.

    Chad



    Chad Dixon
    Gunmaker
    LongRifles, Inc.
     
  13. Rimfire

    Rimfire Well-Known Member

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    As stated mine was for a 338 Norma build also. If you can swing the PTG bolt I think you will be very happy you did. Having a nice tight fit bolt is a huge + and scrap the Sako extractor. I use them in some of my rifles but Kiff will send the bolt body set up with a pinned M-16 style extractor.
     
  14. Good

    Good Well-Known Member

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    Would you mind explaining these things? (sorry)

    What does this mean? Again, I don't pretend to know anything. Kind of like Jeeps, I pull and install motors, fabricate spring hangers and junk, but when it comes to actual mechanic-ing of the inside of a motor I know nothing. I'm a driver, not a mechanic. I don't know what this means but I want to, and I am trying to find all this information you are talking about.

    This is for a .378 Weatherby size case. The 416 Rigby is the parent case and shares the .585 diameter with the .338 Lapua Magnum, roughly the same as the .378 Weatherby.

    Thanks Chad, it did help, but is the AR-15 style extractor the same as the M-16? I understand the M-16 style is pinned also.

    OK, so everyone thinks the opening of the face of the bolt this far can be done and is possible. But, it is probable that just installing a new bolt and selling my old one is a better idea, if the funds are there. Also, I like the idea of the M-16 style extractor.

    One last thing, does anyone have a cartridge diagram or drawing of the .338 Norma Mag? I am playing heck finding one.

    Just FYI, after speaking with Mr. Kiff, the reamer to get to Mr. Sloan's specs is $138.

    Thanks again,
    Tim. gun)