Due to this web site I broke down and tried black hills, and I should have stuck to my guns. All I hear are good reviews, but I never really knew what fliers were til this week. one moment a good group next moment disappointment. I tried the 68 gr. hp in my .223 which is a great shooter, and 22-250 v max 50 gr. Federal in my opinion is a much more consistant product, please write back and let me know if I am the only one or if there are other shooters not a fan of black-hills. overall groups were 2-3" five shot groups out of usual sub moa guns.