Bill & Lerch's "APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag"

[Fiftydriver]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Lerch,

lets see, you have 33 grains of fast burning pistol powder in that case behind a good load of corn meal. I would quess it would be about as loud as a 22-250 but without the sharp crack, am I close???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Let me guess, you did not have eye plugs in either!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[goodgrouper]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

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Shoot me an e-mail or start a new thread and we can talk it over.



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Will do.


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Imagine a 300 gr 375 bullet with a BC in the .95 range. Puts a tear in ones eye!!!



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I hear you on that! Will a 300 grain .375 bullet really have that high of a bc? I was hoping for a 400 or 450 grainer.

 

[Coyboy]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Steve and Bill next time you take that gun outside get some good pics of her in the sunlight. I want to see her in all her glory.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

GG,

A conventional 300 gr 375 cal bullet would have no chance having a BC this high but I think the new Wildcat Aluminum tipped bullets will offer us things we have not seen yet in ballistic potential.

Now, I am just estimating with the 375 bullet. It may well be a big heavier then 300 grains. Originally talking with Richard about a heavy ULD RBBT in 375 we were talking about a 410 to 420 gr weight bullet.

These new aluminum tips are pretty **** big, not like a tip on an accubond. Imagine the tip on a 750 gr Hornday A-Max 50 cal bullet and take that tip and put it on a 338 or 375 bullet.

Pretty much the entire ogive is aluminum tip, just not the small section just under the meplat.

This large tip does a couple things, or at least it should. The Ogive is very long, RIchard told me something like an 18 to 20 cal ogive!!! That really increases bullet length.

It also replaces alot of heavy lead weight.

Just for an example, the numbers Richard gave me for his 215 and 220 gr 30 cal bullets were that they were in the 1.820" length range. Thats a full 0.100" longer then a 338 300 gr SMK and in a 30 cal bullet, but with a relatively light bullet weight.

I am sure the BC of a new 375 bullet will be in the +.9 range, final bullet weight, not quite so sure about but I would guess in the 300 to 340 grain range.

Will be interesting.

Just as an example again, I have been testing some 270 gr solid VLD designes for a company and in Black Sunshine with very top end loads they will do 3600 fps. Comfortably, I would say 3550 fps is about tops. Now thats a solid.

Richards aluminum tipped bullets are basically this same length and ogive design, but being a more forgiving lead core, cup jacketed bullet design, they will be much more pressure friendly and consistantly accurate as well I would suspect. We will see.

THe lighter weight with high BC really adds to ballistic potential down range. That is not even considering the terminal effect of the bullet at extreme range which should be dramatically better then anything else we have to use now.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[lerch]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Never was mad at ya for anything about a bench. We have rebuilt the top for our varmint master bench to support the added length of the new gun. We will get some pics of it soon

The cornmeal is gonna do just fine by us, just seems more practical than wasting 200 rnds of bbl life on a 1000 rnd bbl on near full bore fireforming loads.

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Perhaps we should start a new thread on this or a PM so as to not hijack this thread?


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probably wouldnt hurt


steve

 

[lerch]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

I cant wait to get some of these bullets in hand, from what i have seen so far they will be awesome!!!!! What do you think this will do for down range terminal preformance Kirby???? I am not sure how fragile the tips will be and if they will act like ballistic tip or what.

They should be **** impressive for sure and 2 ol' boys in OK are eagerly anticipating them

steve

 

[lerch]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

[ QUOTE ]
Lerch,

lets see, you have 33 grains of fast burning pistol powder in that case behind a good load of corn meal. I would quess it would be about as loud as a 22-250 but without the sharp crack, am I close????

Let me guess, you did not have eye plugs in either!!!

Kirby Allen(50)


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With 3 aluminium buildings around us when we cracked her off it sounded more like a pipe bomb!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I had ear plugs in, i aint quite that stupid /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We shot her a little more last nite, should burn through lots of fireforming loads over the weekend

take it easy
steve

 

[jb1000br]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

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Saw it done with a 6" diameter barrel for short range and it was deadly accurate. Was in an early issue of Varmint Hunter I believe. I will try and find some pictures if I get time.

It was custom from the ground up. Whole thing built in house from aliminum and stainless steel. Barrel was made specifically for the project and turned out weighing something like 50 lbs all by itself. I thought, ****, I gotta have me one of those!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I don't need a 6" diameter barrel but 3 or 4 would be fine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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I'm gonna bet that "6" barrel" you saw was a small barrel inside a tensioning tube with liquid between the two...

 

[edge]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Is there any reason to not make a false chamber and form the brass using hydraulic pressure? It would seem that one problem with fireforming is that the pressure is not held at peak long enough to fully form some shoulders. Time is on your side with hydraulics. Once you calculate the yield strength of the brass you only need to reach that point and hold.

Not sure, but it would seem to work.

edge.

 

[lerch]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Hornady is making hydraulic dies kinda similiar to what you are talking about. I know in these big cases they dont work to well but in a smaller case they would probably work pretty good. Kirby and Richard Graves tried one that we sent them and it had a hard time expanding the lapua case

take it easy
steve

 

[Fiftydriver]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Lerch,

These new bullets in a 338 AM at ranges under 1000 yards will probably be a literal bomb!!!

Past that I suspect expansion will be very reliable and vastly superior to anything else we have in this ballistic class.

In the smaller 338s, I suspect expansion will be very positive at any range as well but a bit more controled at closer range.

All this will have to be seen when bullets get in the air but there is no doubt that there will be more reliable expansion at extreme range with these bullets.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Fiftydriver]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Edge,

That would certainly work, only problem is financial with this type of case forming. With a case as large as the 408 CT, it would need some serious psi. The press mounted hydro form dies simply do not work on these large cases.

In theory, your on the right track, in practicality, we are not there yet.

I do not think anyone would disagree that the best case senerio would be to have a second fireforming apperatice so you can simply corn meal form cases in a receiver with a scrap barrel in it.

Only problem in the case of the 338 AM which is based on the 408 CT is that it requires a pretty large receiver to start with which run $1000 for just a 408 sized receiver. Pretty big chunk of change for a fireforming receiver.

I am working on something that may solve this porblem if it works. If it does not you may be calling me stubby!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Supermag]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

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If it does not you may be calling me stubby!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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Don't do that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif You have alot of rifles to build, just pay the neighbor boy or fly BB out to yank the chain /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BB, if you can't fire Tiger Stripes again after this, I'll take her off your hands (no underlying motive here) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[new shooter]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

GG
You really know how to make a man nervous with this fire forming. I am new to this fire forming, it will be the first time for me. I will be doing the 338 am. what i am reading here is not good. Quote "corn meal will beadblast your throat cutting barrel life in half." especially since i spent twice as much on my barrel to have it carbon fibered wrapped so that i would get 50% more barrel life. I don't believe as some say that GG would exaggerate. In the last serval years i have read his reports and he has always been right on scientifically. that is why i went with carbon fiber wrapped barrel because of his reporting was so accurate. This issue really worrys me because this is the first and only gun i can afford to have made and i guess i can hope Kirby comes up with a seperate gun to fire form brass, but if he doesn't is there any place i can send my brass to have it fire formed so i don't have to lose half of my barrel life forming the brass? Any input would be greatly appreciated! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif