Bill & Lerch's "APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag"

[goodgrouper]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

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With live fire fireforming loads, it is nearly impossible to get pressures high enough , quickly enough to prevent these pressure dents. Believe me I have tried. Even used MUCH faster powders and lighter bullets. When you have 155 grains of usible powder capacity, live fire fireforming has many problems and is not very practical.



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That may be and makes good sense. I think selling your cases already pre-fireformed would be a great way to do it. You could have a scrap action and a burnout barrel set aside for this task and then your customers wouldn't have to use up precious barrel life doing it themselves.

Unc B and I have done this before with a scrap model 7 barrel and it worked great.


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I do hear what you are saying on the bead blasting effect of corn meal and there may be some potential there but I have never seen it in my rifles. These are not rifles where you will be fireforming 100 rounds of brass all at once. At least that is not my design purpose. 50 max is plenty.



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This might be a fun little experiment for you. On a piece of scrap metal, load your beadblaster full of cream of wheat and see what it turns out. It is cheap media!




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This is the BAT 2"x 10" not the 8.5" that you used on the MOAGs. It has a huge thread length and Bruce at BAT said it would handle a 40" 1.750" diameter straight cylinder barrel.

That is what I have on my Black Sunshine, totally freefloated and have never had any problems at all with consistancy

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That is good to know. The next rifle project I will do is a 3" diameter barrel at 40" long and I was planning on using that 10" bat to thread into.


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Anyway, from my borescope inspections of my own personal barrels

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Speaking of this, how many rounds are down the Sunshine now and how does it look? Anywhere near the MOAG condition?

 

[goodgrouper]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

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Well if i use the bullet method then i have well over 100grs of rifle powder being blasted into the throat at amazing speeds dont I???????

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Yes, but powder is in the process of turning into a gas. Cornmeal does not. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[1doug]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

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The next rifle project I will do is a 3" diameter barrel at 40" long and I was planning on using that 10" bat to thread into.

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why 3 inches in diameter?

d-a

 

[goodgrouper]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

I am going to do a .375 bore wildcat on a rail gun so it needs to be as heavy as possible and it won't look funny (at least to me) because there will be so much aluminum and steel going every which way on this thing that the fact that the barrel is bigger diameter than the action won't really stand out. I might even go with a 4" dia barrel.

After playing around with the 52 lb moag and some 40 lb. cruiser weight guns, I have come to the conclusion that a stock is your only limiting factor. The Mcmillan 50 bmg br stock is great, but it is still a rifle stock and is only so big and adds length to your gun. It is also fairly permanently attached to the action for transportation purposes and takes up a lot of space and is awkward to handle. A rail gun can have a longer barrel than a stocked gun and still have a shorter overall lenght. Then when it comes time to disassemble it and move on to the next hunting spot, you simply pull the rail off the base and put them in seperate small crates. It also solves the problem of building a rest and/or transporting a pedestal that will work with a 50+ lb gun.

The rail gun I will be building will weigh in excess of 100 lbs but can be disassembled into two 50 lb pieces that are smaller and shorter and less awkward. A regular stocked gun is simply not beneficial anymore when you get to these weights. It limits what you can do and your never going to fire it offhand anyway! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Fiftydriver]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

GG,

The problem with forming 338 AM cases is getting the scrap receiver. There are not alot of cheap 408 receiver laying around!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think I have figured out a way to make it work however, if I live through it anyway!!!

3" diameter barrel, ****!!! Buildin a 100 pounder are ya!!! I would recommend a bedding block for that one!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Black Sunshine has just over 300 rounds down the barrel. Some minor heat cracking but throat is still in very good shape so far. I am curious to see when she turns the corner. It seems barrels look really good up to a certain point and then decline very fast. We will see. Just got my new mounting system in yesterday for her so will get it back up and running and throwing bullets at 3K very soon.

BY the way, whats that monster project of yours going to be chambered in???

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[lerch]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

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Well if i use the bullet method then i have well over 100grs of rifle powder being blasted into the throat at amazing speeds dont I???????


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Yes, but powder is in the process of turning into a gas. Cornmeal does not.



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I dont really care what process it is going through, i care what condition it is in when it hits the throat. I think you are over blowing the abrasive qualities of corn meal to prove your point /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[lerch]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

well even though we havent gotten to shoot the gun yet, i will tell you what it is a hell of a conversation starter!!! We have been leaving out here at the shop most of the days and everyone that comes in gives it a double take /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif We are planning on making a run for the 3K mark by the end of this month if weather and everything else cooperates with us. We have a spot picked out and we are formulating a plan of attack /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pics to come soon

steve

 

[Black Diamond 408]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Bill-Lerch

Ive been fire forming with cornmeal and cream o wheat for many years with no signs of bbl wear at all. In some pretty good bench rifles as well.

I also have built a fireforming platform for making 338-408 (338 snipe-tac) cases for my customers. Im using 40grns of WC846, cream of wheat, toilet paper= 95% form. I just use any fast burning cheap powder, it all works.
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I used an old test reciever i built years ago, it has a 18" bbl, all mounted on a steel u channel, it can be bolted to a bench or just set on a block of wood, i pretty much rapid fire, as fast as i can load it i shoot. When your forming hundreds at a time its the best method. I dont have to worry about cleaning or the bbl heating up.

As many as you will be doing i wouldnt worry about the bbl at all, just keep it clean while forming the brass. I run a patch through after two shots, clean after 10. Just what i do.

Dave

 

[lerch]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Well me and BJ were talking about the abrasive issue and just to make sure we are gonna use some cottonell TP with added aloe vera treatment, just to be on the safe side. Wanna make sure we stay away from that John Wayne TP, lands would be gone in a couple of rounds!!!!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jb1000br]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

3-4" barrel...to BR standards...who is gonna make that? And turning it down to a 1.25" thread for the action to screw on...doesn't seem like the best idea...Haven't seen anything offered commercially larger than 2" from Kreiger...and last I knew, CroMo only, not stainless...

 

[new shooter]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

Dave

Have you used any of Richards 325 or 350 in your 338-408 yet?

 

[Black Diamond 408]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

New shooter,

I have some of the old style 350grainers, my 11.25" twist will not stabilize them, you need at least 10. I'm waiting for his new 280grn bullets with the aluminum tips. They will be real screamers!

Dave

 

[royinidaho]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

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I'm waiting for his new 280grn bullets with the aluminum tips.

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I'm waiting also. They should work well in a RUM, I'm hoping!

Should be able to get close to 2800 MV, me thinks......

 

[lerch]

Re: Bill & Lerch\'s \"APS Xtreme Range 338 Allen Mag\"

well BJ spent most of last nite necking down brass so we could rack off our first fireforming load this morning. We just went outside the shop here, which is in the middle of town, and rested the big beast off of the back of my dads ford diesel and gave BJ the honors. I honestly figured it couldnt be that loud since there was so little powder and no bullet. WRONG!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

BJ tripped the 5oz trigger and a cannon blast broke the morning air!!!! As we trotted inside to not look incriminating I saw the cat that was sleeping under dads truck beating feet for the next county and I saw BJ's little legs pushing as hard as they could to carry him and the 60lb gun inside, i had the muzzle break /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hell of way to start the morning, probably do a little more shooting with her tonite. The fireforming load worked great, 33grs of Unique and the cornmeal worked perfect, nice 95% formed and read to rock and roll

steve