Best Factory Action
- Thread starter Greg Duerr
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Cold Trigger Finger
Well-Known Member
That is a great point. Suprising down side. Thank you for the heads up.
I sure do hate electrolisis. I imagine that in a salt water/air environment it would be even worse.
I sure do hate electrolisis. I imagine that in a salt water/air environment it would be even worse.
Kennibear
Well-Known Member
I personally find CF as a perfect stock material as it is so stiff (high modulus of bending). It makes the stock very light yet incredibly stiff. That lets you put more weight into the barrel. Adds to the polar moment of inertia i.e. the rifle resists side to side motion. Now if Boron fiber comes down in price we can do even better!
One question. Definition of "factory action"? My thinking is something sitting in the rack at the local gun store. Something available from the maker as a completed gun without buyer imput. Some of the actions mentioned I consider as custom. But I think they are a better deal if you start blue printing a facrory action.
KB
One question. Definition of "factory action"? My thinking is something sitting in the rack at the local gun store. Something available from the maker as a completed gun without buyer imput. Some of the actions mentioned I consider as custom. But I think they are a better deal if you start blue printing a facrory action.
KB
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
gave this thread more thought last night, and here some actions I'd seriously think about.
1. is still the Savage PTA / dual port, or even a beefed up mod. 12 single shot. The single shot gives you a lot of options that you can't get there with most others
2. The very first XP100 single shot action (note not the later one that was built off a mod.7)
3. 721 / 722 Remington action. Will need a lot of reworking as these can be all over the place, but clearly better design than the 700 even though they are similar.
4. in a low pressure mid to short case length round, the Remington 788 action is one to look at. I wouldn't use it in a high pressure mag configuration. It has some bolt issues that are fairly easy to fix if you know how, and also an extremely fast lock time. They're ugly, but have seen many a 788 shoot sub .30" groups one right after another.
5. Believe it or not the old Sako action with the factory set trigger. This is not one of the newer suspect actions. Also a pre Garcia Sako is another one to look at. Look for a chrome moly action as European stainless steel is still suspect in my book.
6. The generic Howa action! Just a nice design, but won't run with the above actions even if done right.
7. WBY MK.V is not perfect by anybody's needs. But if you shoot big massive cases that are also long when loaded; then the MK. V is you friend. Gunsmiths don't like them, but that's usually due to incompetence. These actions don't break!
gary
1. is still the Savage PTA / dual port, or even a beefed up mod. 12 single shot. The single shot gives you a lot of options that you can't get there with most others
2. The very first XP100 single shot action (note not the later one that was built off a mod.7)
3. 721 / 722 Remington action. Will need a lot of reworking as these can be all over the place, but clearly better design than the 700 even though they are similar.
4. in a low pressure mid to short case length round, the Remington 788 action is one to look at. I wouldn't use it in a high pressure mag configuration. It has some bolt issues that are fairly easy to fix if you know how, and also an extremely fast lock time. They're ugly, but have seen many a 788 shoot sub .30" groups one right after another.
5. Believe it or not the old Sako action with the factory set trigger. This is not one of the newer suspect actions. Also a pre Garcia Sako is another one to look at. Look for a chrome moly action as European stainless steel is still suspect in my book.
6. The generic Howa action! Just a nice design, but won't run with the above actions even if done right.
7. WBY MK.V is not perfect by anybody's needs. But if you shoot big massive cases that are also long when loaded; then the MK. V is you friend. Gunsmiths don't like them, but that's usually due to incompetence. These actions don't break!
gary
Greg Duerr
Well-Known Member
700 actions are neak and clean and look good...................................
adam32
Well-Known Member
I don't understand what you are saying about the 721/722 being a better design then a 700? What all do you think is different? Same trigger can be used, same bolts can be used, it's basically identical.
Most Sako's are excellent, the 85's are nice, so nice that Fierce copied them.
The Howa 1500 and Vanguards are also great and can be made to run up against any Salvage or 700/721 or Sako or 788...just ask Nosler and how they copied it for their M48
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
I saw that and thought that was funny too. But I'm already controversial enough with my "strange" 7mm affection, so I didnt' say anything.I don't understand what you are saying about the 721/722 being a better design then a 700? What all do you think is different? Same trigger can be used, same bolts can be used, it's basically identical.
Most Sako's are excellent, the 85's are nice, so nice that Fierce copied them.
The Howa 1500 and Vanguards are also great and can be made to run up against any Salvage or 700/721 or Sako or 788...just ask Nosler and how they copied it for their M48
But I agree...They're almost identical...How can they be a "better design"? That's almost comical.
Also, a 788 is almost as much "fun" to re-work as a Mark V with those, oh so fun to hand-lap, 9 individual locking lugs... I'm not saying it's a good action, because they are one of the strongest out there...But being a competent smith or not, lapping 9 individual locking lugs and testing for perfect fit takes a LONG time. That's why most smiths don't want to screw with them.
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
When other smiths call me to see how to make it work I frequently find they are trying to fit the barrel like you would on a Remington. They are slightly different in a couple spots and if you haven't figured it out you will hate them and blame the action.
There is no need to get all 9 lugs bearing evenly on a Mark 5 to get it to shoot. The bolt is far more stable under pressure than the 2 lug arraignment found on the sloppy fitting 700. The Mark 5 is my favorite factory action to build on. I could go on and on of the benefits all of which do nothing to earn me money. The 700 is a gunsmiths posterchild of an action in need.
There is no need to get all 9 lugs bearing evenly on a Mark 5 to get it to shoot. The bolt is far more stable under pressure than the 2 lug arraignment found on the sloppy fitting 700. The Mark 5 is my favorite factory action to build on. I could go on and on of the benefits all of which do nothing to earn me money. The 700 is a gunsmiths posterchild of an action in need.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I don't understand what you are saying about the 721/722 being a better design then a 700? What all do you think is different? Same trigger can be used, same bolts can be used, it's basically identical.
Most Sako's are excellent, the 85's are nice, so nice that Fierce copied them.
The Howa 1500 and Vanguards are also great and can be made to run up against any Salvage or 700/721 or Sako or 788...just ask Nosler and how they copied it for their M48
as I said the 721 / 722 are very similar to the 700 except in the bridge. Many folks think they support the barrel thread a little better. That action is what the original mod 40 was designed off of.
The 788 is not a bad action once you learn how to deal with the bolt. I've seen it done in two different ways, and both work well. The lock time is a fraction of what the 700 is, but the trigger can be a pain to deal with. It can be made to get down fairly low, but takes a little work and elbow grease. The MK.V is also a multi lug action, but with a better bolt design. It's down fall is a snail's pace lock time. yet one knows upfront that this one is going to stay together with out a whimper. I personally like the six lug action just as well, and for 90% of the shooters will do just fine.
gary
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
Roy Weatherby used to have a MK. V. action on his desk that he used as a paper weight. It was originally chambered in .300 WBY mag, and they shot a sqib load thru it with the bullet lodged in the barrel. Then shot a full bore round thru it. The action cycled just fine, but the barrel had a nice goose egg in it. Try that with your 700!
gary
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I don't know whether to get into this or not because it is along the lines of the Chevy versus ford versus dodge ETC.
From a gunsmiths point of view I find that from a quality of machining stand point the Mark 5 Weatherby is by far the best/truest action available to day. They require little if any action blue printing.
All actions need some blue printing or at least checking to make sure.
Back when Sako's were in there heydays, They were very good but they have gone the same way as others and lowered quality along with price.
The Savages are very good for the price but the barrel nut, the Accu trigger and the "Floating bolt head" leaves something to be desired In my mind . And contrary to popular belief the "Floating bolt
head" needs to be squared to be correct.
The Remington is the best to build on because of the after market parts and also the basic design
is inducive to good accuracy. When Remington decided to build the 700 Action they listened to the best bench rest shooters and took the information and recommendation ant the rest is history.
This is why most custom actions are built with the Remington foot print and general design.
There are other good actions to build on but the Remington is still king. The older Remington actions
are the ones that I look for because they were built before the bean counters got control and bottom line was the main thrust of there business plan.
If it were not for the Metric barrel threads the Vanguard actions would be another great one to
build on and more Smiths would work on them.
As I have said on other post, If I want to build accurate cannon I like to use the Weatherby Mark 5 action for all others My number 1 choice will be a Remington short or long actions if accuracy is the number one goal/requirement.
I have seen the quality of all factory rifles fall off in general and especially the cheaper versions
some once fine rifles are now falling into the numbers game and forgetting there past quality reputation.
You get what you pay for and if it is cheep your chances of getting a real shooter are less.
Of coarse this is just my opinion, but it is based on my experiences with all actions.
J E CUSTOM
From a gunsmiths point of view I find that from a quality of machining stand point the Mark 5 Weatherby is by far the best/truest action available to day. They require little if any action blue printing.
All actions need some blue printing or at least checking to make sure.
Back when Sako's were in there heydays, They were very good but they have gone the same way as others and lowered quality along with price.
The Savages are very good for the price but the barrel nut, the Accu trigger and the "Floating bolt head" leaves something to be desired In my mind . And contrary to popular belief the "Floating bolt
head" needs to be squared to be correct.
The Remington is the best to build on because of the after market parts and also the basic design
is inducive to good accuracy. When Remington decided to build the 700 Action they listened to the best bench rest shooters and took the information and recommendation ant the rest is history.
This is why most custom actions are built with the Remington foot print and general design.
There are other good actions to build on but the Remington is still king. The older Remington actions
are the ones that I look for because they were built before the bean counters got control and bottom line was the main thrust of there business plan.
If it were not for the Metric barrel threads the Vanguard actions would be another great one to
build on and more Smiths would work on them.
As I have said on other post, If I want to build accurate cannon I like to use the Weatherby Mark 5 action for all others My number 1 choice will be a Remington short or long actions if accuracy is the number one goal/requirement.
I have seen the quality of all factory rifles fall off in general and especially the cheaper versions
some once fine rifles are now falling into the numbers game and forgetting there past quality reputation.
You get what you pay for and if it is cheep your chances of getting a real shooter are less.
Of coarse this is just my opinion, but it is based on my experiences with all actions.
J E CUSTOM
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Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
personally one shouldn't fear a metric thread, they are actually simpler in most cases than the U.S. standard threads (which most rifle actions are not). On the otherhand I hate metric pin diameters, as the reamers are a pain to get the right size. Where as an inch one can be had +/- .001" over or under off the shelf. If you can read mics accurately, and know how to use three wires; you can cut most any thread
gary
gary
