best caliber for a short action

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by gunsmith1012, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. gunsmith1012

    gunsmith1012 Member

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    Just looking for some ideas here. I want to build a dedicated gun for groundhogs and coyotes for 800 to 1500yards. this is what i have so far stockade 1000br stock, jewell trigger, 20moa rail and a stainless steel remington 700 short action. im open to any suggestions to cailber was leaning towards a 260 or a 6.5x47 lapua, but im not stuck on either. want to decide soon so i can order a barrel dies and brass. any info thankful for. been blasting them with the 338 lapua so far but an hoping for a more cost effective shorter caliber for these little guys.
     
  2. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    284 winchester. get a 8.5 twist barrel so you can shoot the 195 grain Berger EOL bullet when it comes out and you can use the 180 grain Berger or JLK at around 2850 from a 30" barrel. Run it through a ballistic calcuator, you will be impressed!
     

  3. angus-5024

    angus-5024 Well-Known Member

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    +1 for the .284 win. I would also throw the 7 SAUM in there, it'll give a bit more than the .284.

    If you want a 6.5 for $$ savings... I have no idea.
     
  4. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    with the 284 winchester you can neck up Lapua 6.5x284 brass.
     
  5. 4bycamper

    4bycamper Well-Known Member

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    How about a 300 wsm? I know you said varmints but small diameter, light weight bullets tend too get lost in the wind at 1500 yards. A 208 gr A-max has a better chance of being 'minute of coyote' at that distance.

    My 6mm rem is great at 500 yards but 1000 yards is a whole 'nother ball game. :D
     
  6. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Of the two I'd definitely go with the .260.

    However that being said, if you are serious about small critters beyond 1,000yds I'd say take a long hard look at the .300wsm since you can throw much heavier High BC bullets from it than you can from the .260.

    I keep hearing rumors of some heavier 6.5 super high BC bullets coming out anytime now from a couple of the manufacturers which if they do appear and prove out could change that equation but for now that's the way things shake out.
     
  7. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    Another vote for the 260. It's my companion rifle to my 6.5x284 for high volume shooting at targets and varmints. Great accuracy , easy to load, long case and barrel life, and readily available Lapua brass.
     
  8. gunsmith1012

    gunsmith1012 Member

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    can you go with a wsm in a short action rem. i thought the coal with vld proved too long and needed a long action. now it will be a single shot so maybe it would work.
     
  9. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the 300 WSM in my opinion is recoil isnt going to be fun when your shooting 50 rounds at ground hogs. And you said you wanted to save money and components can get spendy for the 300 WSM.
     
  10. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Riley makes a pretty good arguement, one that I share as well. The 208 A-Max has a published G1 of .648, the 6.5 with the 140 Hybrid or VLD are .618 & .616 IIRC. Not a Huge difference in BC (I know, I know- 30 points is 30 points :D) but a LOT of difference in recoil & powder burned.

    I'm saying stick with the 6.5. & to further the conversation as devil's advocate, I'm voting for the 6.5x47. Velocity is biting the heels of the 260 & doing so with less powder & more room in the mag box if needed.

    OP, I am running a single shot 6.5WSM in a short action with an OAL of 3.100". The SA will work just find with a WSM & heavies. If you don't wanna run one at a time, Wyatts make an extended box mag or Seekins makes a DBM system that will allow 3.100" OAL as well.
     
  11. Jordan Smith

    Jordan Smith Well-Known Member

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    It's important to remember that when you're comparing a given launching platform, like the WSM case, you'll always get less wind drift with a 7mm vs. a .300. This is simple math. Compare the BC values of the most aerodynamic bullets in each caliber. The .300 has the 208gr A-Max, 210gr VLD, and recently the 215 and 230gr Target Hybrids were also introduced. The 7mm has the 162gr A-Max, 168gr VLD, 180gr VLD, and 180gr Target Hybrid (of course you've also got the 180gr JLK, but then your costs go up).

    Bryan Litz did an article about the 7mm 180gr Hybrid, and mentioned that it's BC is lower than it should be because Berger used a wider meplate on this bullet than on most other bullets. This increased the uniformity of the tip in production, but decreased the BC. Bryan mentions that a quick pointing of the tip results in an enormous 8% increase in BC, where pointing most bullets results in a 2-4% increase because of the already narrow meplat of most Hybrid and VLD bullets. If you add 8% to the BC of the 180gr 7mm Hybrid, you'll see that it's slightly better than the BC of the 230gr .308 Hybrid. Here is a quote from Bryan:

    "The special secret of this bullet is that since it has a wider than average meplat, the drag reduction that’s possible from aftermarket pointing of the meplat is much more than average. Typically the drag can be reduced (BC increased) by 2-4% for most bullets that already have small meplats. However, since the meplat of the hybrid is so wide to begin with, it’s BC is increased by 8% when pointed! This is a substantial improvement which is evident in the ballistic performance and puts this bullet head and shoulders above anything else under .338 caliber for ballistic performance."

    http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/B_7mm_180Hyb.html

    In any case, In order to match the BC of the 7mm pills, you need a much heavier .308 bullet, which means that the case in question (in this case it's the WSM) won't be able to push it as fast. The 162gr A-Max has a 0.625 G1 BC, for example, and in order to match that, you need to go to the 208gr A-Max in .308", which has a G1 BC of 0.648. You can launch the 162gr A-Max to 3100+fps from the WSM case, but you'd be lucky to get 2950fps from the 208gr A-Max from the same case. If you compute the wind drift charts for both loads, they nearly duplicate each other, with the 7mm having the slight advantage past 1000 yards by a measly couple of inches. In the case of coyotes, there is absolutely no reason to go with the larger caliber, unless you're willing to burn a lot more powder and spend more on bullets.

    For the OP's application, I would go with something in 6.5, and would likely just build a .260 or .260AI. If you want a truly cost-effective alternative, I would build a .243AI and load the 105gr Hornady HPBT, or a 115gr option. It's pretty hard to find a more effective solution that costs less to load. The .260AI may be the best compromise, here, if you're hoping to get out to 1500+ yards. I know a fella that hammers more coyotes than anybody else I've ever known, and his choices for coyotes out to a mile are the 6XC and the .260 (his longest shot on a coyote is just shy of a mile, and was made with the 6XC).
     
  12. jabey9210

    jabey9210 Well-Known Member

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    If we're talkin WSM why not the 7mmWSM I'm not sure of the mag length of the rem 700 but my semi custom Savage 7WSM shooting 180 bergers touching the lands the O.A.C.L is 3.010. Seating them out of the lands I'm sure you could get them to fit and be a repeater. And out of a 27" tube over 64 gr of IMR 7828ssc I am getting exactly 3000 fps and with better ballistics than the 300WSM. If that's still too long the look at the 7RSAUM cause it is .065" shorter than the WSM. Didn't mean to suggest what was just said Jordan's post came up while I was typing mine.
     
  13. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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  14. Truc

    Truc Well-Known Member

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    what has not been mentioned is the 270 WSM using the 165 Matrix bullet, very impressive speed at 3100 fps, BC and recoil is not that bad.