Bergers for Grizzley Bears

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by eaglesnester, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. eaglesnester

    eaglesnester Well-Known Member

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    Hi Boys and Girls Been lurking on the site for a while, thought I would stir the pot with a new thread. Got a grizz draw for area 7/39 in northern B.C. Canada, April 15th-June15th. Its high alpine, remote wild country. We plan on hunting from horse back as it is so rugged. I will be shooting a 308 Norma Mag loaded with Berger 210gr bullets seated .003 off the lands, with a 1 in 12 twist. Yes I know that the 300 magnum class rifle is not recommended for the great bears. My hunting partner carries a auto 12ga loaded with 3.5" sabots and a 340 Weatherby Magnum for back up and second shooter so I should be ok with weapon selection. Would never consider the Norma without proper backup. We plan on going back in there for two weeks as its 450 klicks from the pavement on logging roads and rough 4X4 vehicle access only. From our intell gathering have found out that there are lots and lots of very big bears in that MU. Will keep you all posted on how the hunt goes and if we get one I will post photos. Am a little nervous about using Berges on the great bear, anybody have any comments to make about bullet selection?


    Cheers&Tight Groups: Eaglesnester
    Vanderhoof, B.C. Canadagun)
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2008
  2. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

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    It may not be the most frequently recommended cartridge but if you look at the historical records from Alaska, LOTS of brownies/griz have been taken with the 30-'06 and 300 winmag. Unfortunately, I can't offer first-hand advice on that particular Berger bullet.

    One of my best hunting buddies has a 308 Norma and I've been quite impressed with that cartridge.

    Best of luck!
     

  3. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you tink that a 308 Norma Mag is not adequate for Grizzly bears?

    Here is what Phil Shoemaker has to say about the effectiveness of the 30-06 on Alskan Brown bears.. Oh Yea Phil is a Brown Bear Guide and has been doing so for many years..


    24hourcampfire: 300 RUM for Brown Bear hunt




    #2041642 - 02/24/08 03:09 PM Re: 300 RUM for Brown Bear hunt [Re: jwp475]
    458Win 458Win
    Campfire Regular


    Registered: 01/04/05
    Posts: 525
    Loc: Circle Hot Spring, AK

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    The bears today are no larger or tougher than the bears of 50 years ago when the 30-06 was by far the most popular rifle carried by Alaskan guides. Andy Simms and Hosea Sarber and a hundred others found nothing wanting with the 30-06 then, and now, with the bullets we have today, the 30-06 is even better.

    Contrary to some opinions, guides who recommend 30 calibers for bears do so to insure that they do not have to shoot their client's bears.

    ANYONE WHO CLAIMS THE 30-06 IS INNEFFECTIVE HAS EITHER NOT TRIED ONE - OR IS UNINTENTIALLY COMMENTING ON THEIR MARKSMANSHIP.
    _________________________
    Phil Shoemaker
     
  4. eaglesnester

    eaglesnester Well-Known Member

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    Reply to 308 Normas ability to effectivly take Grizz

    My info comes from Speer reloading manual #14 as to recommended calibers for the great bears. Page 525 states: As you have seen from the other cartridge descriptions in this section, we feel that none of the various 30 calibers are adequate for the great bears. This cartridge with a tough bullet will likely drop a large bear that's not agitated, but we perfer a heavier caliber when the bear is in a bad mood. (Not agitated) is the key here. A grizzly bears adrenal system is quite a bit different from all other critters. When you or I get mad we only stay there for 20 minutes or so. When A grizz gets made he stays that way for hours. He can cover 100 yards in less than 6 seconds with a broke shoulder and his lungs full of blood and his heart exploded. Make no mistake about it pilgrim, he is coming for you and he will kill you if he can. Once he gets his adrenalin up you are in serious trouble if all you are holding is your Johnson.

    Cheers&Tight Groups: Eaglesnester
     
  5. Varminator 911

    Varminator 911 Well-Known Member

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    Why Berger?

    Why would you try the Berger? Are they paying you? That's the only reason I might chose that bullet. The Swift 200 A-frame, Nosler 200 Accubond or Partition, Speer 180 Trophy bonded bear claw, or Barnes 180 TSX would all be far better choices in my opinion. I'd rather have my 7-08AI shooting one of those bullets than your 308 Norma shooting the Berger.

    But what do I know...I've never shot a bear.
     
  6. ELZWizz68

    ELZWizz68 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, good luck! That sounds like a very good time to be had, congrats on getting the draw / tag. ​

    I shoot the Bergers in my 300 RUM, and I have never shot a bear with them... that being said, I don't mind shooting big deer with them, or maybe a hog, since I have very, very good shot placement, but the bullet isn't as heavy jacketed and constructed as say a Trophy Bonded, Swift, or Accubond bullet. You could be in for a wee bit of excitement, and tracking wounded brown bears is not for me... ​

    You should go to Bergers website, they can give you some direction via email, I have seen other posts where forum members have done that and one of the Berger team has contacted them back with answers. I get the impression that Berger is very interested in their customers, so I am sure you would get an answer, straight from the horses mouth to say.​

    EZ My .02​
     
  7. Slopeshunter

    Slopeshunter Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any problems with the 308 Norma for grizz. I've got a friend who killed a grizz last spring, one shot, 140 TSX from his 280AI.
     
  8. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    With a proper bullet in a 30-06 or 300 Mag caliber rifle is more than adequate for Big Grizzly bears and my preference in bullets for bear would be the 180 grian TSX..

    Oh yea, I have shot and seen shot a few Grizz and a 30 cal. bullet is plenty agitated or not
     
  9. Varminator 911

    Varminator 911 Well-Known Member

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    It's not the caliber, it's the bullet

    In 7mm the 140/150 TSX, 160 Accubond, or 175 Nosler partition are probably the top choices I'm familiar with. They would penetrate better than the Berger 210 in a 308 Norma. With dangerous game you absolutely need a bullet that will penetrate. Bergers may be a great killer on deer sized game but I'll bet that even Berger won't recommend them on Dangerous game. If they did I'd be shocked.

    Furthermore if you do use a Berger, the faster you drive it the more danger it won't penetrate enough. I'd feel better with that 210 Berger at 308 Win speeds, 2200-2400fps, than at Norma speeds. Even Sierras would be better than Bergers. Their jackets are heavier.

    Guess that is my 4c worth. I'll shut up now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2008
  10. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh, I misunderstood the title. I thought this was about using burgers to bait for grizzly hunting. Sorry to intrude. :confused:
     
  11. ELZWizz68

    ELZWizz68 Well-Known Member

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    That would be the infamous burger cannon, I am sure. 1/4 pound bullet at 5 FPS doesn't do a lot of good either. I can (just about) run this fast, with a figure built by burgers.

    For shame, bringing up baiting, someone could get kicked out of a living room for bringing that up.... :eek::D.

    EZ
     
  12. mikebob

    mikebob Well-Known Member

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    penatration with a berger would be fine. Walt berger took his team to africa and hunted all big game and dangerous game with the berger and all were one shot kills. even a lion at over 400 yards. but you need to shoot a bullet you are confident in.
     
  13. Coues Sniper

    Coues Sniper Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any more info on this? I would be very interested to hear - or better yet actually see - how the Bergers performed on big and dangerous game in different weights.
     
  14. mikebob

    mikebob Well-Known Member

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    just call walt berger himself, he is a very friendly person, I spoke to him several times on the phone and once in person. you can get his contact info off of bergers website. one friend here in bfe oklahoma couldnt get his riflr to bergers very well so walt flew here himself and loaded and shot his rifle for him to get them to shoot. i really didnt belief my friend untill he showed up, i think they are going to make a dvd out of the africa trip.