berger.what´s happening?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by älg, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

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    I went to Berger´s web page and have found they will - soon- introduce a new line of hunting bullets- It is curious that Match /target bullets are also announced in the "coming soon" category , and the BC´s are different from the currently published ones at least in some I am familiar with ( i.e. 6,5 cal 140 VLD).-

    Does anyone have first hand information?? Whoever goes to Shot in Florida could solve these questions maybe??
     
  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope they don't change or alter the 210 VLD. It has filler my freezer more than once and I have 3 rifles that love them.

    Jeff
     

  3. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    Jeff, what BC do you use for the 210 VLD's?
     
  4. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    .631

    .
     
  5. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    Obviously it works very well for you, I was wondering since they recently lowered it a fair bit.
     
  6. BryanLitz

    BryanLitz <b>Official LRH Sponsor</b>

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    The current update of the website lists our experimentally measured BC's. The old BC's were based on a computer prediction program. Although they were accurate, the new numbers are based on measurements of actual test firing so are more accurate, though not very different for most bullets.

    It's important to remember that the bullets themselves have not changed. We just have a more accurate way of determining BC for the same bullets.

    The box labels have been printed with the new BC's for a few weeks already, the website has just now caught up. Website and labels are now in sync.

    I'm happy to answer any further questions regarding our BC's, or the website. There's still a large portion of it under construction.

    -Bryan
     
  7. Down Under Hunter

    Down Under Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Bryan,

    At the risk of highjacking the thread there are many of us constantly wondering when the much anticipated 338 cal 300 grn VLD will be available and also predicted BC ?

    It would be nice to get it from the horses mouth so to speak. I know I first heard about the imminent release about 2 years ago but one year rolls into the next ? Will we ever see them eventuate. They would be a huge hit with us boys !!

    Many thanks for your participation in the thread.

    Best regards

    DUH
     
  8. BryanLitz

    BryanLitz <b>Official LRH Sponsor</b>

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    DUH,

    Here are the projections for the 300 grain bullets:

    All of the Berger .338 bullets are designed to be stable in a 1:10" twist, at any reasonable speed (anything over 2200 fps muzzle velocity).

    The BC's are based on the dimensions of the bullets, and a database of information I've compiled that relates measured (tested) BC to bullet geometry. This method results in estimates that are typically within +/- 3% of the measured BC.

    BC's are given as average values from 3000 to 1500 fps.

    300 grain Tangent (non-VLD) ogive:
    estimated G1 BC: 0.749 lb/in^2
    estimated G7 BC: 0.384 lb/in^2

    300 grain Secant (VLD) ogive:
    estimated G1 BC: 0.855 lb/in^2
    estimated G7 BC: 0.438 lb/in^2

    I'm sorry to say that I can't speak for the release date at this time. I think the machine will be ready by this coming summer, but don't quote me on that. Trust me I'm as excited as you guys to give these things a spin!

    -Bryan
     
  9. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Bryan.

    So I can use my Bergers with the currently published BC´s understanding these are more accurate?? I had read with much interest your articles about the 30 cal 155 g. and 7 mm 168-180 g. Bergers..now I see you put your work to good use :)

    Can you advance any information about the diference between the hunting and the match bullets ( I guess the latter remain the same as they are now in the VLD line).-
     
  10. BryanLitz

    BryanLitz <b>Official LRH Sponsor</b>

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    alg,
    The Hunting and Target VLD's are the same on the outside. Same shape, same BC. The Hunting VLD's have thinner jackets to allow for proper expansion, the Target VLD's have thicker jackets since expansion is not an issue for target shooters.
    Also in the Target line are some flat bases and Boat-Tails (non-VLD's) but all the hunting bullets are the thin jacketed VLD's.
    The 'Match' description still applies to all 3 lines of bullets; Hunting, Target and Varmint, meaning they're all made on the same machines to the same Match tolerances. In other words, our Hunting bullets don't get less attention to consistency/precision then the Target bullets.

    That's correct. Some people were nervous about the BC's changing because the old BC's were so accurate. The new BC's haven't changed very much, usually less than 5% for most cases, and they're even more accurate than before. To put it in perspective, a 5% change in BC will cause just about 1 MOA difference in predicted drop at 1000 yards.
    Use the new BC's and shoot with confidence.

    -Bryan
     
  11. Franklin

    Franklin Well-Known Member

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    Bryan, could you give us predicted bc's for the 250's?
     
  12. BryanLitz

    BryanLitz <b>Official LRH Sponsor</b>

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    For the 250's:

    BC's are given as average values from 3000 to 1500 fps.
    250 grain Tangent (non-VLD) ogive:
    estimated G1 BC: 0.624 lb/in^2
    estimated G7 BC: 0.320 lb/in^2

    250 grain Secant (VLD) ogive:
    estimated G1 BC: 0.713 lb/in^2
    estimated G7 BC: 0.365 lb/in^2

    Here's a trick you can use to estimate the BC of bullets that have similar shape but different weight. Just multiply the BC of the known bullet by the ratio of weights. For example, the G7 BC of the 300 grain VLD is 0.438. To estimate the BC of a 250 grain bullet that shares the same shape: 0.438*(250/300) = 0.365.

    As another example, consider the 6.5mm 130 grain VLD with a G1 BC of 0.552. Since the shape of the 140 grain VLD is similar to the 130 grain VLD: 0.552*(140/130) = 0.595. In fact the measured BC of the 140 grain VLD is 0.595. I chose this example because it happens to work perfectly. The estimate isn't always exact, but can give you a good basic guess.

    -Bryan
     
  13. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    Have you guys ever considered pre-pointing your bullets with a pointing die? Would raise the BC and keep it more consistent.
     
  14. BryanLitz

    BryanLitz <b>Official LRH Sponsor</b>

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    Tyler,
    The benefits of pointing are very real. Unfortunately, so are the manufacturing challenges. I can't speak with authority on the bullet making process, but I think that adding the step of pointing would add significantly to the time and cost associated with producing bullets. The extra cost would have to be passed on to the shooter.
    I'm sure the cost analysis has been done in the past at Berger and other bullet makers who choose not to point bullets. Sierra's recent introduction of their new Palma bullet is an exception, but it only applies to the one bullet which is surrounded by many unique influences.
    As a shooter, I consider the investment in the pointing die to be very worthwhile, much more so than paying +$2-$3/box for pre-pointed bullets in the long run.
    Eric could probably give you a more specific answer based on the realities of Bullet Smithing.
    -Bryan