Berger VLD vs Berger Match Hunting VLD

[SWALI]

Has anyone compared these bullets in the field ?

I have used Berger VLD .308 175gr on red deer.
Fantastic accuracy in 1.13 twist.
All beasts have gone down but none have dropped to the shot.

Just wondering if these NEW Match Hunting bullets are up for the job !

 

[Ackley Man]

Per Walt Berger - Do not attempt to use the target VLDs for hunting. The J4 jackets used in the target bullets are too thin. The bullet will fragment tooooo early. Stick with the hunting VLDs for hunting.

 

[Jumpalot]

Huh..... I heard the exact opposite. I was told that the jackets on the target version were thicker and wouldn't expand reliably. Either way, stick with the hunting version.

 

[Overkill338]

It's not like the Hunting VLD has a poor BC. Probably the best flying hunting bullet out there. I'm using heavy for caliber VLD's to get all the downrange energy I can.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Per Walt Berger - Do not attempt to use the target VLDs for hunting. The J4 jackets used in the target bullets are too thin. The bullet will fragment tooooo early. Stick with the hunting VLDs for hunting.

Maybe Eric or Brian will clarify this, but in the mean time... The "hunting" bullets are the ones with the J4 jacket. They are indeed highly frangible and are advertised as such.

The target bullets have thicker jackets so they will stay together at high velocites and have not been tested for performance on game. They have a jacket that tapers thicker from the point to the bearing surfce. If you have some pigs to cull, this would probably be a good way to experiment with them.

Mark

 

[Ackley Man]

It's not like the Hunting VLD has a poor BC. Probably the best flying hunting bullet out there. I'm using heavy for caliber VLD's to get all the downrange energy I can.

Berger's target and hunting LVDs have exactly the same BC.

168gr = .617 (G1) .316 (G7)
180gr = .659 (g1) .337 (G7)

 

[Ackley Man]

Maybe Eric or Brian will clarify this, but in the mean time... The "hunting" bullets are the ones with the J4 jacket. They are indeed highly frangible and are advertised as such.

The target bullets have thicker jackets so they will stay together at high velocites and have not been tested for performance on game. They have a jacket that tapers thicker from the point to the bearing surfce. If you have some pigs to cull, this would probably be a good way to experiment with them.

Mark

Berger target & hunting bullets both use J-4 jackets. The hunting bullet jackets are thicker.

 

[Overkill338]

Berger's target and hunting LVDs have exactly the same BC.

168gr = .617 (G1) .316 (G7)
180gr = .659 (g1) .337 (G7)

That was my point. There is no use in using the target bullets on game, when their hunting bullets are just as good.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

... The hunting bullet jackets are thicker.

Are not....

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Berger target & hunting bullets both use J-4 jackets. The hunting bullet jackets are thicker.

Here ya go... read post 13...

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/berger-thick-bullets-35973/index2.html

The thick jackets were created to solve the failure problem, which they have.
Since we haven't tested them for terminal performance, we can't know how they might perform, so it would be irresponsible for us to recommend them for hunting, or even say they're OK for hunting.

Since I know some of you guys like to live on the bleeding edge and you're working on things that the front line answers don't suffice, I'll offer the following additional information.

The thick jackets are thicker by about ~0.005" (more or less depending on caliber) in the bearing surface area. From the bearing surface to the mouth, the jackets have more taper than the standard (hunting) jackets, so that the thickness at the mouth is nearly the same as it is for the standard jackets.

What does that mean for expansion? One could assume (dangerous) that since the jacket thickness is close to the same at the mouth, that expansion would be initiated the same as it is for the standard jacket, but that the subsequent expansion/fragmentation could be less violent/excessive. Another way to say it is that the bullets might not provide enough expansion/fragmentation on long range, low velocity impacts as the standard jackets because the thicker jackets could hold the bullet together more.

Then again it's possible that the thicker jackets could prevent adequate expansion/fragmentation even at nominal/close range impact speeds. This is the possibility that we're afraid of, and it's why we can't advise them for hunting, which translates to advising against their use for hunting.

Jacket design is a classic trade-off between terminal performance on low velocity impacts vs survivability in high velocity / rough barrel applications. Reliable performance on low velocity impacts drives jacket thickness down, while survivability drives it up. The shooter who wants a bullet that survives 3400+ fps MV from a possibly rough barrel, and have that same bullet expand reliably on a long range shot where the impact velocity is 1800 fps or less is really asking a lot.

We're doing our best to understand and improve the design of jacketed hunting bullets in order to make the best bullets possible for as wide of a range of applications as possible. I see our current offerings of thick and thin jackets as a stepping stone toward a better solution. One shouldn't have to decide between high velocity survivability and low velocity terminal performance, but that's currently the situation.

Hope this sheds some useful light,
-Bryan

 

[Ackley Man]

Here ya go... read post 13...

This is converse to what they emailed to me. I think at the end of the day since the BC is identical, hunting VLDs should be used for hunting and target VLDs for target - problem solved.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

The newer (non-hunting) bullets were referred to as "thick" originally so that there would be no mistake. They were never recommended for hunting because of the "thick" jackets.Their stock number originally ended with a "T", I believe. However all the bullets now have a different number all together and are designated as target or hunting.

 

[groper]

This is converse to what they emailed to me. I think at the end of the day since the BC is identical, hunting VLDs should be used for hunting and target VLDs for target - problem solved.

you not getting it...

A THIN JACKET is best for hunting game at LONG RANGE.
A THICK JACKET is best for hunting game at SHORT RANGE AND VERY HIGH VELOCITY.

regardless of what label the bullet carries....

 

[Eaglet]

Man! I must be tired or I'm going stupid!

Tow days ago one of my friends called Berger about this and he was told
that the hunting bullet's jackets are made thinner so they don't pin hole right
through. All the 210 gr. bullets that I have are yellow boxes so I figure they're for target, but we have killed many deer and antelopes with them very successfully....