Berger Bullets vs TSX bullets

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by rdeh, Mar 23, 2006.

  1. rdeh

    rdeh Member

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    Does anyone have any on game experience with the Berger VLD bullets compared to the TSX bullets in the .30 Cal.
     
  2. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    The Berger bullets are made with a thin jacket and softer lead than hunting bullets , I have shot deer with them and had good results they expand like the A-max and the ballistic tips. So me guys have said that the just penciled through with no expansion butI haven't seen that yet. I use a meplat uniformer to make the tips a little bigger to ensure expansion
    The Barnes bullet are solid copper and they do expand but no where near as fast as most other hunting bullets.
    ifyour gonna be shooting smaller game like deer and down then the Berger bullets should work well but plan to loose some meat
     

  3. mo

    mo Well-Known Member

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    I called Berger the other day and ask that same question! I ask why do they just make match bullets why not make a hunting bullet. His(a sales person not Mr. Berger) reply was that this fall they are going to market the VLD as a hunting bullet, but only the VLD. Seems a few hunters (I know John Burns uses the Vld to hunt elk with) called Berger to tell them the success they had been having with there VLD on game animals. Berger than started testing them, and come to find out they are good hunting bullets. They will be marketed side by side with the VLD's, but they are the same exact bullet. Moe
     
  4. lerch

    lerch <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    The tsx is a solid copper hollow point, greatweight retention but I have heard that unless bone or dense tissue is hit the bullet may have expasion issues.

    The berger is primarily a match bullet but many people have had good results with it on game. I think, may not be right, that all bergers are built in the J4 jacket which is a great match jacket. Only prob here is that the jacket is very thin and you may have over expansion issues. GoodGrouper used the bergers on a antelope this last year with good results, but then again that is a fairly thin skinned animal.

    I shot some original barnes bullets into a sand and gravel bank, 300RUM with 165gr bullet. The bullet opened up decently and retained 90% weight. I was impressed but our deer have napkins for hides so I think without a bone hit the bullet would fly right through.

    FOr a good mix of both worlds try some accubonds or the Wildcat line of bullets. They open up good but still retain enough weight to provide good penetration.

    If you are after thin game go with the bergers, i bet they wont let ya down

    take it easy
    steve
     
  5. Buckmaster

    Buckmaster Active Member

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    Lerch, the barnes will drop'em faster that you can imagine.
    Bone or no bone. Problem is getting them to group.

    I always thought that barnes shot like crap, but the TXS I've heard are better than the old barnes.

    If you get them to group well then shoot'em.
     
  6. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The tsx is a solid copper hollow point, greatweight retention but I have heard that unless bone or dense tissue is hit the bullet may have expasion issues.
    steve

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The original X had that problem not the TXS&gt; In fact the TXS will expand in one inch of ballistic gelitan.This was determined by placing a thin sheet of aluminum behind the 1" block of gelitan to measure the size of the expansion in fact they open sooner than most lead core bullets.
     
  7. lerch

    lerch <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    Maybe they have fixed their problems but I have still heard MANY mixed review on them. I still like the poly tipped bullets or the wildcat line because they are bullets built by a hunter for other hunters.

    I have also heard of a lot of people having eratic pressure issues with the Barnes line

    good luck
    steve
     
  8. Delta Hunter

    Delta Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I've used the TSX to kill two whitetail deer. One hit the spine and blew through it. Deer dropped in it's tracks. The other went just behind the shoulders taking out the heart. No major bone was encountered. That deer ran 15 to 20 yards before hitting the turf. Internal damage was awesome. Two examples don't mean a whole lot, but I'm very happy with them so far. And BTW, they have shot very accurately in my rifles.
     
  9. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    I like the Berger VLD's The price for their bullets is great. I also think that Barnes gets a bad rap on accuracy because of the bullet length VS twist rate. I look at it as apples and oranges. You have a hunting bullet and you have a highly accurate VLD. Use them for their intended use and don't worry that your hunting round groups open up.

    If your shoot the .277 get the 140 tsx bt. I've never recoved one while hunting - even taking out the neck verts on a large Muleys. The only problem with them is: they need to produce heavier BT bullets in each of the calibers. Like 150 or above in .277 175 gr and above on .284 and 200+gr in 30 cal.

    The wound channel is fantastic. Nothing in North America can take on my 405 Grain Barnes - X out of my 458 win mag.

    http://www.barnesbullets.com/prodtsx.php

    Left to right

    .458 405 grain 99+% weight retention shot into soft dry fine sand at 200 yards. Chrono at 2480 fps with 26 inch barrel

    .277 169.5 grain Wildcat VLD

    .277 150 spbt with home moly coating

    .277 169.5 grain Wildcat VLD

    .277 140 grain Barnes into soft dry fine sand at 400 yards. chrono at a mild 3168 fps out of 270 AI 29 inch barrel. also a 99% retention weight.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    The 2 coyotes I shot with my 300 RUM 210g vld would not like what they saw, if they could see the pics. Distances were 120 yards and 275 yards. Both exits left about 6-7" holes. Definately not a hide saver bullet. I want to try them on deer this year at a fairly long distance of 500-700 yards, if the deer cooperate this year. I think they'll work great for deer at longer ranges where velocity has slowed down some, otherwise we'll probly lose a couple pounds of bloodshot meat. But hey, some meats better then no meat, right /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  11. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Maybe they have fixed their problems but I have still heard MANY mixed review on them. I still like the poly tipped bullets or the wildcat line because they are bullets built by a hunter for other hunters.

    I have also heard of a lot of people having eratic pressure issues with the Barnes line

    good luck
    steve

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have shot a lot of the TXS as well as few of my friends and have seen no erratic pressure problems. The old stle X bullets I am sure experienced that problem. I have loaded the TXS along side of the AccuBond with the same powder charge for nearly the same velocity (about 20 fps difference). The only problem with the TXS's in some calibers is that hte bc could be higher, for this reason I am trying some of the Wildcat bullets and have high expectations for them. The 180 30 TXS's bc is not bad as I use .525 for it and that works for me out to as far as I have shot them.(1035 yards)
     
  12. dog caller

    dog caller Well-Known Member

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    Never used a Berger to hunt with. Probably never will. There is no reason for me to shoot at any big game animal on earth with anything but a Barnes. Two elk, seven muleys, two pronghorns and dozens upon dozens of coyotes and <u>maybe</u> they have taken a combined 10 steps after being hit. In my old Nosler loving days, I never got that kind of terminal performance! I switched to Barnes after Partitions and Ballistic Tip failures and have never had to look back! I've never been able to recover a bullet, bone or no bone, to see what it looks like. Barnes bullets (TSX's or regular X's) just plain HAMMER game. Only bad time I've ever had was developing a 140g X bullet load for my 270 WBY many years ago. Once I found the right combination though, game over. The TSX's have been very easy for me to devolop loads with. I currently shoot them in four different rifles and four different calibers and they will shoot 1/2 MOA in all of them. (I've never grouped them past 300 yards, maybe they get worse after that?) IMHO, Berger would have to be laser guided to out perform the TSX.
     
  13. HooterShooter

    HooterShooter Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt about the terminal performance of barnes.
    I haven't shot any since the blue bullets and they sucked. Worked great but sucked in accuracy. I'm about to try a 308 load tomorrow with 168 tsx and ramshot tac. This is my first time trying them since in 3 years. I'll give them 1 more chance....we'll see.

    On another note fellas....
    Comparing barnes to bergers is comparing a ferrari to a hummer!
     
  14. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    HooterShooter-I was thinking the same thing, 2 totally different bullets. Talk about comparing apples to oranges here.