Berger Bullets vs Controlled Expansion Bullets

[sp6x6]

My rifle holds 2, what about a follow up?

 

[cfvickers]

The best all around HUNTING bullet would be the Nosler Partition if you can get it to shoot accurately in your rifle. It opens up at long range. It holds together and punches through at short range. It is not an ultra long range bullet due to the average BC. No ultra long range bullet with a high BC is an all around bullet. The NP does more things well than any other expanding hunting bullet, mainly giving up the ultra long range category. The longer, heavier for caliber versions should qualify as a long range bullet, but not an ultra long range bullet. If you have a run-in with dangerous game, you may be glad you have a Partition in the chamber.

Load a Partition in the chamber, and have your long range bullet in the magazine. You have plenty of time to eject the Partition and load your BC champ on a very long range shot.

I had exactly the same thinking and tried it. the Partition is 2 inches off POI from the berger at 120 yards so I scratched that. Timmay, I hope I didn't come off as condescending when I replied to your post. It was not intended as such. I think there is a lot to what a previous poster said about making sure there is nothing in the hollow tip. I will often run my loaded rounds through the case cleaner and I have to take a needle and remove the media from the tip of each one. As long as I do I have not had any problem, but I would expect problems if I forgot to clear the cavity on one and then used it on game.

 

[bigngreen]

I often wonder how many failures of bullets are caused by the reloader, how many threads do we see where some one is trying to get the run out down only to find that they have been seating bullets by the tip, this would really screw with a Berger type bullets function on game. Or shooting a bullet at the ragged edge of the upper velocity limit where it's just looking to come apart.

If I ever had a consistent failure of a certain bullet others were rocking out to I would certainly look for the cause, I just about screwed myself with the ammo box I use to carry my loaded rounds, it's lined in the lid and I found one day that the foam will pack in the tip as it rides in my pack. A lot of issues with a bullet may be traced to something alone the line that WE do, which is self inflicted bullet failure. I've started checking the meplats on my bullet that are not tipped to make sure nothings crimped over or stuck in them and if I see something a little of I use them for sighters not game.

 

[Greyfox]

The best all around HUNTING bullet would be the Nosler Partition if you can get it to shoot accurately in your rifle. It opens up at long range. It holds together and punches through at short range. It is not an ultra long range bullet due to the average BC. No ultra long range bullet with a high BC is an all around bullet. The NP does more things well than any other expanding hunting bullet, mainly giving up the ultra long range category. The longer, heavier for caliber versions should qualify as a long range bullet, but not an ultra long range bullet. If you have a run-in with dangerous game, you may be glad you have a Partition in the chamber.

Load a Partition in the chamber, and have your long range bullet in the magazine. You have plenty of time to eject the Partition and load your BC champ on a very long range shot.

I would have agreed a few years ago, but at least for the hunting I do which is mule deer, whitetails, and antelope, the 140 Berger in my 6.5x284 performs excellently with complete broadside penetration with over a dozen one shot kills from 50 yards out to 998 yards. Most wen down in there tracks and none went further than 20 yards. Internal damage was massive. I think it's the very high sectional density in a heavy for caliber bullet that makes the difference. I'm hooked on them.

 

[fastfire57]

I got my cow elk using a .338 Lapua with Berger 250gr OTM @ 2830fps
It was 540yds and droped in her tracks. She was slightly facing away.
On entrance there was 2 ribs completely severed, the back of both lungs and the liver was jelly, one rib was broken on the far side with no exit, never found any of the bullet.

 

[carpetman2]

I know this is an old thread but I want to give my perspective. I killed a bull in 09 with 210's @ 787 yards just behind the shoulder 1/3 the way down. Never took a step and had an exit would the size of a 50 cent piece. Shot two wt bucks, one at 180 yards, hit the spine and down it went. The other was 495 in the spine and down it went. I shot a nice WT buck at 140 yards just behind the shoulder slightly quartering which should have exited in the shoulder or just in front. Lost the buck, never found blood or hair but two of us saw the impact and heard it as well. Shot a doe at 160 with 185's going 3010 behind the shoulder. She literally flipped. But before I know it she is up and running so I nailed her again this time running and directly hitting the shoulder. She stopped and turned slightly facing me. I let her stand there for several min thinking she was going to go down. But no, she ran off. We could see the shoulder was just a mess, but very little blood on the ground. We tried to trail her but the blood was only every 50 yards or so and not in any kind of consistant direction. We finally lost her in the brush and canyon area and at dark had to turn back. I have only lost 3 deer in 41 years of hunting. Two were using VLD's at close range. I have taken 7 deer with my 7mm08 using 120 Barnes TTXS @ 2780 and all ran less than 50 yards before going down. They all had good blood trails to follow, and were 50 yrds out to 334 yards. My kids and I combined have taken over 15 WT deer with SST's in 243, 30 06 and 300 WM and have never lost one, with most going down upon impact. I think that if you use them in their proper sphere you should get the proper result, but as for me I am changing to SST's or Accubonds for out to the 400-500 yard range and will use the Bergers for the extended ranges.

 

[LongShot4Real]

HCheck Poorere are some of my thoughts on bullets.

1. Full-metal-jacket (solid) bullets penetrate too much, zipping through with minimal tissue damage.

2. Frangible varmint bullets break up quickly. Sometimes this destroys heart/lungs for a quick, clean kill, but sometimes it merely ruins a bunch of meat without reaching the vitals.

3. Soft points (traditional cup-and-core bullets with soft lead cores in thin metal jackets) can mushroom perfectly, break into two or three pieces, or even flatten like a pancake, depending on where they land.

4. Bonded-core bullets usually expand less but retain more mass for deeper penetration.

5. Controlled-expansion bullets—either via internal walls, bonded cores, monolithic cores or combinations—expand 1.5-2X, retain 90 percent or more mass and pass through, even after striking major and muscle groups.

What bullets should you use? The ones you believe in. Just understand their limitations and don't expect any to drop game in its tracks every time.

Below is some examples from barnes web site. granted this is lab info but it give you an idea of some accuracy comparisons. this of course if subjective. i have held off the long range hunting for the very reason Bergers, SMKs, Swamp Works, Nosler Custom Competition......on and on...........are match bullets not hunting bullets. In my opinion they are all great for accuracy and competative shooting. However this isnt competition this is hunting. And if your hunting shouldnt you use a hunting bullet. I beleive given time the market will follow suit which they have. FYI Nosler i beleive just announced what i call a Berger Killer..... its the Accubond Long range. And barnes is following suite with the LRX high bc hunting bullets. I love two holes in my animals and in my opinion controlled expansion is best....to each there own. Lab Tests | Barnes Bullets

 

[Fotis]

I have used the bergers quite a bit. That said i prefer my accubonds/partitions and TTSX's

 

[Broz]

I thank the day I swithched to Bergers several years ago. Not one lost or tracked animal since. 13 Big game animals from 200 to 1285 yards this season alone and counting. None took more than a couple steps, most went straight down. I like destroyed vitals, doesn't leave much to run on.

Jeff

 

[Fotis]

Same here with the AB's Broz. from 20 feet to a little over 500 yards so far.

 

[Broz]

Here is a thread of the testing I did this year. Might be of interest to people trying to decide what they want from their bullet. The link will start in the middle whith the actual field testing on game animals including photos of exits and all data from each shot. Gets graphic but these are actual hunting situations with real world kills on antelope deer and elk. Note the penetration on the 200 yard Bull was around 26" diagonally. Not too shabby.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/cmparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/index10.html

Jeff

 

[Skyking]

While I am not as detailed as Jeff in his reports. I do have a few pictures of game taken with the Berger 180 vld's.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/7wsm-180-berger-takes-down-two-grizzlies-78901/

 

[Broz]

While I am not as detailed as Jeff in his reports. I do have a few pictures of game taken with the Berger 180 vld's.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/7wsm-180-berger-takes-down-two-grizzlies-78901/

Skyking, you sure take some awesome trophy animals. I envy the quaity of hunts you go on. It is a statememt in itself what bullet you choose to anchor them.

Jeff

 

[Fotis]

Skyking

Congrats on some very fine animals.