Berger 375 possible?

[Erik Kiser]

Has anybody heard anything reliable as to whether Berger has a 375 bullet in the works or planned for the future. Kicking around the idea of a 375 something next year but I haven't seen anything yet on the 375 bullet market that really jumps out at me that will do double duty as an accurate bullet with high bc and be reliable on game the size of large whitetail or elk

 

[dig]

Sierra has the 375 SMK out. This is an awesome bullet, just fine for dear and elk. Also the Acubond works well on large/dangerousness game.

 

[Erik Kiser]

I've read some posts on here about the 350 SMK not expanding on elk. Anybody seen good terminal performance out of it?

 

[benchracer]

I e-mailed Berger a few months ago to enquire about the progress of their .375 bullet development. I was informed that the project has been shelved while they deal with the spike in demand for their existing products. If we ever actually see such an animal, it is most likely years off. My concern with the Berger bullet is that it will be developed for the Cheytac class cartridges, like the Sierra 350g SMK was. I would like to see them produce something in the 300g class that will stabilize in a 12 twist barrel and work in the .375 H&H class cartridges up through .375 RUM or .378 WBY.

I have done some limited shooting with the 350g SMK. It is a BIG bullet with lots of bearing surface and a seemingly thick jacket. It will take a BIG case to push it fast enough to be useful in the hunting fields. I doubt very much that it would expand well at all, considering that it was designed to be launched around 3200 fps for specialized military applications. OTOH, if placed properly, you might not need a lot of expansion?

At the moment, the only true LR/ELR bullets useful for hunting, and made in .375, are being produced by Cutting Edge Bullets. Their MTH line offers high bc bullets suitable for the various .375's from the H&H on up. The drawback is that they are expensive. I have been looking for a cheaper alternative for long range practice, but there is currently not much available.

For hunting purposes, the Sierra 300g Gameking will produce a trajectory very similar to a .308 175g SMK if launched at .375 H&H velocities. Like the .308, it will start to run out of steam around 700 yards.

Supposedly, the Nosler 260g Accubond has about the same bc and can be driven much faster. Given Nosler's well known tendency to overstate bc's by a significant margin, I am not sure what kind of performance that bullet would produce. The Barnes 250g TTSX/Hornady GMX have .430ish bc's that could allow for a bit of reach if they were driven fast enough, though I don't think either one would be likely to perform well much past 800 yards or so.

Those are the best options I know of at the moment. You can shoot the expensive stuff that will give you quite a bit of reach, or you can shoot more conventional bullets that will put you roughly in the same class as a .338WM in terms of range.

It's frustrating that there aren't better bullets available to take advantage of the .375's potential. That's a hole in the market that I would like to see filled, but that is where we are at the moment.

 

[dig]

I shoot the 350 SMK in a 27 inch .378 Wby pushing at 2850 +\- fps. I am new to this bullet and just finished first box of 50. Accuracy on paper has been outstanding at 200. I have shot plates out to 630 with great accuracy as well. (Will go longer as I work through load). As for performance I hope to use this rifle on Elk next year. When you get to this diameter they just seem to work much like we shot the SMK out of the 300's at dear and elk for years with positive results. I believe this bullet will stabilize in the 378/375 RUM class 1/12 when pushed. That's my limited experience thus far.

 

[Erik Kiser]

In my opinion you'd need to stay around 325-375 grs. Once you drop to 300 and lower the ballistic coefficient sucks and you might as well stick with the proven 338 caliber a with 300 gr bullets. Does seem to be a gap there for a traditional lead cored high bc bullet in the caliber besides the 350 SMK that seems to have enough jacket thickness to fight a Cape Buffalo

 

[benchracer]

In my opinion you'd need to stay around 325-375 grs. Once you drop to 300 and lower the ballistic coefficient sucks and you might as well stick with the proven 338 caliber a with 300 gr bullets. Does seem to be a gap there for a traditional lead cored high bc bullet in the caliber besides the 350 SMK that seems to have enough jacket thickness to fight a Cape Buffalo

The 300g Cutting Edge MTH has a bc of .750 and the 320g MTH has a bc of .830. Both will stabilize in a 12 twist. Of course, the bc's go up nicely from there with the heavies, but going that route requires custom barrels and large cases. It all depends on what you really want and how much you are prepared to spend to get there...

 

[benchracer]

I shoot the 350 SMK in a 27 inch .378 Wby pushing at 2850 +\- fps. I am new to this bullet and just finished first box of 50. Accuracy on paper has been outstanding at 200. I have shot plates out to 630 with great accuracy as well. (Will go longer as I work through load). As for performance I hope to use this rifle on Elk next year. When you get to this diameter they just seem to work much like we shot the SMK out of the 300's at dear and elk for years with positive results. I believe this bullet will stabilize in the 378/375 RUM class 1/12 when pushed. That's my limited experience thus far.

I didn't have a problem getting this bullet to stabilize from my H&H down to around 2200 fps. It was just too much bullet for the case capacity. About the best velocity I was able to get out of it was 2430ish. It would not surprise me if a RUM or bigger could get enough speed out of it to make it fly very nicely.

 

[Doublezranch]

The SMK's are a very accurate bullet. However, they have little or no expansion. If your building a 375, I would suggest looking at the cutting edge bullets and go from there. They have bullet choices all the way up to 402 grains in the 375. My new project is a 375 RUM. I have too wanted a heavier hunting bullet that would consistent on game with a reasonable bc. I have some 260 accubonds loaded up for ladder testing. I will also be loading up the 320 ceb's for testing as well. I know there's many that swear by the 270 tsx. However if it's bc your after, look at cutting edge bullets. They have what you want.

 

[benchracer]

The SMK's are a very accurate bullet. However, they have little or no expansion. If your building a 375, I would suggest looking at the cutting edge bullets and go from there. They have bullet choices all the way up to 402 grains in the 375. My new project is a 375 RUM. I have too wanted a heavier hunting bullet that would consistent on game with a reasonable bc. I have some 260 accubonds loaded up for ladder testing. I will also be loading up the 320 ceb's for testing as well. I know there's many that swear by the 270 tsx. However if it's bc your after, look at cutting edge bullets. They have what you want.

I agree with your assessment. I am very interested in your results with the 320 CEB's. I was able to push the 300 CEB's to 2766 from a .375 H&H, though it doesn't look like that is where the accuracy will be. I would expect the RUM to really shine with the 320's.

 

[royinidaho]

My experience w/the 375 H&H was with Winchester factory bullets in a Ruger #1. It was a darn good shooter. Just not long range and was not meant to be.

I shoot the 350 SMKs ahead of a 142 or so grains of Retumbo. It's in a whole different league than the H&H. And definitely long range.

I figure that if you hit the large game animal where you wish with that big bullet, success rate should be darn high.

The SMK is a good bullet but not a great bullet.Finding a great bullet in 375 is gonna be tough.

I'm thinking the CEB 375 would be a step up. The boss man at CEB tells me that most are having great success with the 350 & 352 grain offerings. Those guys are shooting the 375 CT about 200 FPS slower than I do.

I'm gonna try the 352 CE offerings first. The anticipated problem, if any, with be the relationship between bullet diameter and bore diameter which is critical for any machined bullet.

Berger 375 cal offerings are right behind the 277 170 gr offering which is on the slow boat. That is, years away. . . I'm certain.

 

[Erik Kiser]

Is it possible to spec a barrel to a bullet? Lets say I wanted to build a 375 something and knew I wanted to shoot one of the CEB offerings like the 352. Knowing the bullets are a little picky about bore diameter can you tell your barrel maker to hit a size you like? Is there a known good size or is it a total crap shoot?

 

[royinidaho]

Is there a known good size or is it a total crap shoot?

It's pretty much a total crap shoot at this time in development and manufacture of both barrels and bullets.

Lead core bullets get larger in diameter as the die wears. After a period of time some attempt to cheat and run the bullet through a "sizing" die to return it to the diameter of bullets made in the early life of the die. This doesn't work as well as one would desire.

Machine turned bullets will be more of a constant diameter from lot to lot of bullets.

Now, there's the barrel. How does one accurately measure the bore diameter of a barrel. It is done and most probably done well by I have no idea of how….

It may well be possible to select a specific barrel for a specific diameter of bullet. Would it be practicable? I doubt it. Time is $ and much time would be added to barrel selection and it still would be a crap shoot.

If I were going for a turned bullet I'd select a Lilja barrel. Liljas are noted for being tighter more than others. Tighter means higher pressures for equal velocity.

However, I know for a fact that I replaced a 30" Lilja with a 28" lilja, same twist, same grooves and the 28" barrel shoots the same velocity as the 30" did with several grains less powder. As much as 3 grains less. So I guess its a crap shoot no matter how ya look at it.:roll eyes:

 

[dig]

Roy, what cartridge are you shooting. I have been wanting to work the .378 Wby up with Retumbo but have found zero data. What cartrige holds 142 grns? Thanks for sharing.