Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

[Alfred Crouch]

Drenge, Beautiful animals, great pictures, just gorgeous country to hunt in. Boy you have had a wonderful hunting season. Thanks for sharing it with everone.
What were your loads with the bergers? I am developing loads for my 7 mm RM. I will try them.

 

[drenge]

Thanks Alfred! Yes it was a very good season. Wyoming and Utah are both beautiful states to hunt in. Especially when you hike to the mountain tops.

I am shooting:

7mm rm
168 gr berger
Nosler Brass
Fed GM 215
64.8 gr 4831 sc (primers started to flatten a little)
.005 jammed

My gun has been trued by the smith but I'm still shooting the factory barrel. Although the gun shoots fantastic (1/2 MOA) I just ordered a 5 1/2 Shilen. Would like to start taking longer shots (had a buck in WY at 856 and passed). Hope this helps.

 

[drenge]

Below is a picture of my friend's elk shot the same day as my buck (a long day). He shot his behind the shoulder at 90 yards with a 300 RUM using a 200 AB. The elk ran 100 yards or so and fell over.

I believe it would have been a different story if he would have hit him high shoulder (or even low shoulder with the 300 RUM).

 

[yobuck]

very nice pictures of a very good hunt.
as for the rifle, if it shoots that good leave it alone, be happy.
i doubt many smiths will guarantee you better with any barrel you put on it.
if you want to reach out as you put it, consider more gun. there are better choices than a 7 rem mag for what your doing especially at longer distances.
your buddys 300 ultra would be 1 to consider. id suggest you do some side by side comparisons at rocks at longer distance.

 

[drenge]

Thanks yobuck. I should clarify that my 7 mm RM still has a factory 24" barrel and holds the 1/2 MOA out to 300 yards. Beyond 300 the patterns start to open up a bit. I figure a heavier, longer barrel will get me more fps and possibly the ability to hold 1/2 MOA a bit further out.

As for more gun - well, I'm building a 338 edge. I really like the 300 RUM but would like to take a larger step up in caliber. I think that should be gun enough for what I need. But I do like the lighter weight 7 mm RM with the 168 bergers. I think its' consistency and its' ability to take large animals at distance is proven. The only thing I'm trying to decide is whether to re-chamber for a 7mm RUM or STW and then go up to the 180 gr bergers. The problem is I already have all of the dies and equipment for the RM and I've heard reloading can be finicky as far as ES and SD are concerned. If anyone has any thoughts I'm open.

But to reiterate my earlier point: I think the bergers do a fantastic job knocking down large animals if you hit 'em right.

 

[lever action lady]

This may be a little late to address this on the forum but here is my hand load data I'm used out of my gun:

I was pushing a .308 210 Berger VLD right in the 2750 fps window where my rifle seemed to really stack them tight... I wasn't able to get that good of down range forgiveness and performance from any other bullet so I used it on a few elk hunts and mule deer hunts in Utah.

Elk hunt 1: A cow elk shot at 553 yards just behind the shoulder. Great results and extensive damage with only a tiny piece of bullet exiting the animal. Far shoulder was half destroyed from all the fragments and blood with hardly any usable meat but no problem finding the cow...she ran 20 yards and fell down.

Elk hunt 2: Another cow elk shot at around 350 yards. She took 5 shots and I couldn't tell I was hitting her...When she dropped and we came up to finish her off all 5 shots were placed in a clay pigeon sized group right behind the shoulder while she was hauling... all went through without hitting bone and none of the bullets expanded at all. Maybe had a bad box of ammo...but really surprised because of the variance from the hunt before.

Deer hunt 1: My younger brother borrowed my 300 win mag for a mule deer hunt and shot a little buck...he put down a neck shot and it was around 80 yards out. The neck was so destroyed that you could put one of those smaller basketballs half way through the neck and had destroyed half the neck meat. So I was guessing at close ranges it expands quite quickly with all the energy.

My Bull Elk Hunt: In Utah it takes a while to draw a bull tag but I did and got a nice bull in my scope. I shot him at 572 yards moving through the aspens in the shoulder bone and he was clearly hit...later that afternoon we caught back up with him...the bullet shattered before his vitals on that far shot but he came home with us with a 150 yard spine shot where it wouldn't have mattered the bullet composition at all. I have very mixed feelings...wish they would have the shrapnel affect and still have heavy core to continue penetrating at closer distances than 400 yards because the bullets seem to break up too quickly at closer ranges...also too much inconsistencies with expansions and too much dependencies on bone connection at further ranges.

 

[lever action lady]

Here is a photo of my husband's bull this last year... he shot him in Sept 2016...he shoots a 7mm mag but we switched from bergers to 150 grain accubond lrs going about 3007 fps...

This bull dropped when shot at 50 yards in one shot...right where he stood. I'll have to post some more results on this new bullet from cow hunts since we both wont be drawing for bulls for quite some time hahaha...

 

[FEENIX]

lever action lady,

Welcome to LRH and enjoy!

Cheers!

Ed

 

[BEEMAN]

I also wonder if the tip on the bullet was plugged or out of spec. I always check the hollow point with a needle or paper clip to ensure the cavity is open. As was mentioned earlier keep them out of tour pocket to keep the hollow point free of debris. I have had a few 215 Bergers that have had lead I believe up in the tip; not leaving much of a void in the hollow point.

 

[elkaholic]

This may be a little late to address this on the forum but here is my hand load data I'm used out of my gun:

I was pushing a .308 210 Berger VLD right in the 2750 fps window where my rifle seemed to really stack them tight... I wasn't able to get that good of down range forgiveness and performance from any other bullet so I used it on a few elk hunts and mule deer hunts in Utah.

Elk hunt 1: A cow elk shot at 553 yards just behind the shoulder. Great results and extensive damage with only a tiny piece of bullet exiting the animal. Far shoulder was half destroyed from all the fragments and blood with hardly any usable meat but no problem finding the cow...she ran 20 yards and fell down.

Elk hunt 2: Another cow elk shot at around 350 yards. She took 5 shots and I couldn't tell I was hitting her...When she dropped and we came up to finish her off all 5 shots were placed in a clay pigeon sized group right behind the shoulder while she was hauling... all went through without hitting bone and none of the bullets expanded at all. Maybe had a bad box of ammo...but really surprised because of the variance from the hunt before.

Deer hunt 1: My younger brother borrowed my 300 win mag for a mule deer hunt and shot a little buck...he put down a neck shot and it was around 80 yards out. The neck was so destroyed that you could put one of those smaller basketballs half way through the neck and had destroyed half the neck meat. So I was guessing at close ranges it expands quite quickly with all the energy.

My Bull Elk Hunt: In Utah it takes a while to draw a bull tag but I did and got a nice bull in my scope. I shot him at 572 yards moving through the aspens in the shoulder bone and he was clearly hit...later that afternoon we caught back up with him...the bullet shattered before his vitals on that far shot but he came home with us with a 150 yard spine shot where it wouldn't have mattered the bullet composition at all. I have very mixed feelings...wish they would have the shrapnel affect and still have heavy core to continue penetrating at closer distances than 400 yards because the bullets seem to break up too quickly at closer ranges...also too much inconsistencies with expansions and too much dependencies on bone connection at further ranges.

Welcome to the forum! It is good to see some ladies join in the fun.
As far as the Bergers go; I, and others, have seen this same kind of inconsistency. I have learned to run a .040" drill bit through the hollow point and it really helps. Some will have little or no material removed, and some are all but closed. It is also VERY important not to damage the tips in the magazine, etc.........Rich

 

[royinidaho]

lever action lad,

Welcome aboard!

Interesting results. Great posts.

 

[wsmnut]

I killed a raghorn bull in SE Idaho with a 190 Berger Hunting VLD at 452 yards fired from a 300wsm. One shot through the boiler room. He trotted 40 to 50 yards and fell down.
This is the 4th animal killed by that rifle and load combination in two seasons. Two mule deer in 2015, one of those was a broad side heart shot at 160 'ish yards that didn't go far (perfect bullet performance), the second was a neck shot at 330 yards, so anything would have dropped him, and nomI didn't plan that, he moved...2016 deer at 235 yards broadside double lung. Absolutely perfect performance. Blood trail for 30 yards a blind man could follow. Then the bull. Very happy with these bullets. I have not broken big bones with them, but that bullet through the elk's chest broke a rib on the way out, and left a nearly one inch hole and wreckage behind. Happy they sell these in 500 bullet boxes!

 

[Pdvdh]

Welcome to the forum! It is good to see some ladies join in the fun.
As far as the Bergers go; I, and others, have seen this same kind of inconsistency. I have learned to run a .040" drill bit through the hollow point and it really helps. Some will have little or no material removed, and some are all but closed. It is also VERY important not to damage the tips in the magazine, etc.........Rich

Not surprised at some failures to expand, or some exploding Bergers either.

But it is unusual to have five in a row fail to expand. I suspect the lever action tube magazine is damaging the bullet tips under recoil. If that's the case, you would be well served to select another bullet design for your lever rifle.

 

[elkaholic]

Not surprised at some failures to expand, or some exploding Bergers either.

But it is unusual to have five in a row fail to expand. I suspect the lever action tube magazine is damaging the bullet tips under recoil. If that's the case, you would be well served to select another bullet design for your lever rifle.

Good point. If that is the case, stacking a .060" meplat against a primer in front of it is pretty risky as well. Not sure if the rifle has that setup or not, but unless it is an old 99 Savage, it likely does ......Rich