Berger 168 VLD results on an Elk

[MontanaRifleman]

Interesting. In an email exchange with Walt Berger last month asking him what bullet he'd reccomend for elk for my brother's 300 WSM, I thought he'd reccomend the 190 or maybe the 210, but he said the 168's had been the goto bullet for elk. Obviously, no one bullet will perform well at all times at all distances, but it would seem that there's enough evidence that the 168 generally works quite well on elk that Walt was willing to through some weight that way...

Here's the quote from Walt: "We want our VLD bullet to expend ALL of its energy inside the animal and destroy all of the vital organs resulting in a one shot humane kill and the animal not running off. The 190 and 210 grain bullets will perform well on elk but the most popular bullet for this application is the 168 grain VLD bullet."

The 168 the OP is reffering to is a 7MM. The one you and Walt are talking about is a 30 cal. Walt uses the phrase "most popular". In the non-LR world, the 165/168's are the most popular 30 cal bullet sizes. If I am shooting a highly frangible bullet it will be the heaviest I can in the cal to slow it down and put more mass on target, especially in the event you hit heavy bone. And with these bullets, the heavier ones have the better BC's which is good for LR.

Interesting discussion. The Bergers have a very small pointy HP/Meplat, which it seems may sometimes lead to a failed expansion. There have been some other reports of that as well. GS will not use a that small of a HP/Meplat for this very reason.

 

[bigngreen]

I noticed one day after pulling a couple Bergers that you can get stuff stuck in the HP so I have been careful with how I carry them so I don't get any stuffing from the inside of a case box or something in them. I think this could change how they work, I have no proof but it kinda made me wonder when I saw that.
I wonder what effect a light meplat trim would do for some that have some difficulty opening? Maybe make big game varmint bullets

 

[jmden]

MR,

Yep, my mistake. Somehow I thought it was the 168g .30 cal. I have to admit that I was surprised that Walt seemed to reccomend the 168g .30 cal for elk, and not at least the 190 or better yet, the 210. Your stated reasons are why, of course, that I'm using the 210. I may not have mentioned to him that lrh was my intent, but still for elk at any range, it would seem to me that the 210 would likely get through bone better.

Jon

 

[MTBULLET]

i just returned from Elk hunt. nice 6x5 bull 511 yds with 168 vld in .300 RUM. @3275 fps, one shot = one dead bull ! I've used 'em for 4 years now and think they work extremely well.

 

[jmden]

i just returned from Elk hunt. nice 6x5 bull 511 yds with 168 vld in .300 RUM. @3275 fps, one shot = one dead bull ! I've used 'em for 4 years now and think they work extremely well.

Congrats, MT! Where have your shots been placed when using this bullet? Jon

 

[MTBULLET]

mostly aim for high shoulder shots, this breaks bone and the "boiler room" gets shredded.

 

[elkaholic]

This is the first year I have used bergers. I make my own .308 bullets but don't have the swagging dies for my 6.5 Sherman. I just got back from a hunt in Mt. so I have a little info on the 140 berger in my 6.5. The muzzle velocity is 3150'. Both my cousin who lives there and I used the rifle and killed 4 animals in all. The first was a Muley buck at 150 yds. He turned his head just as the bullet left and it literally blew a soccer ball sized chunk out of the bottom of his neck! One of the worst wounds I have ever seen in my 40+ years of hunting ! ( down) The second was a B&C badger running at about 100 yds. Blew half his back end off and finished him off with a head shot. Third was a whitetail between the eyes at about 20 yds. Not much to glean from that except the top of his head was missing! The last was the antelope that I drew. The bullet entered right behind the shoulder and left a baseball sized hole in the middle of the off shoulder. The animal never even kicked but collapsed right on top of its feet as if it was kneeling. Range 400 yds. As a bullet maker, I would still like to see what happens with the long range velocities, say out at 700-800 yds. I wish they had a ballistic tip because then I know the performance would be more predictable and not depend so much on where the bullet struck.
As far as this hunt went, I would have to give an A to the bergers......Rich

 

[linksmechanic]

It is not an elk bullet! I don't care what the TV shows say. They have slick editing and good marketing trying to sell a product. I have experience and no biases. Yes, there will be a lot of elk taken with them and some saying how great they are. But then many will find out the hard way when they lose there elk. Get an elk bullet to hunt elk. High BC is not the only factor to consider.

Man, I have killed alot of animals with berger and I don't care what you say, they kill animals bang flop. At elk camp this year my buddy shot a bull 4 times with a 180 scirocco 2 and it stood there and looked at us. After 2 more he was down. Elk are on of the toughest animals I have seen. Unless you are shooting 300 smk's prepare to shoot more than once. That bullet was not at fault. It got the animal down and broke bone. I shot one a couple years ago with a 30-06 with 220 core lokts shot it right through the heart, lungs and 2 more shots and it ran 200 yards.

 

[D.Camilleri]

As others have stated before and I repeat again, elk are tough critters. With countless elk kills and stories from others that have killed many elk, one thing remains consistant. Larger calibers kill elk more effectively hands down. My hunting partner used to shoot a 270 on elk. Good shots very seldomly resulted in an authoritative kill. At the same time, he was hunting with a friend that was shooting a 338 win. Every elk he saw him shoot, including quite a few on video were dropped in their tracks as long as the bullet hit it's mark. The bigger bullets have a bigger effect and a bigger kill area. 7mm's have killed a lot of elk, but if it takes a high shoulder shot to do it, you are really limited. Nothing brings this home better than loosing a trophy bull that was hit good with too small a bullet. Big bulls can go miles if a bullet doesn't do it's job right. For the same token, a big bullet needs to expand also to do it's job correctly. Have I found the perfect bullet yet? No, but in my quest, I haven't had a deer or antelope take a single step from being hit with 180 NAB out of my 300 ultra and I haven't had an elk go more than 20 yards after being hit with 225 NAB or 250 partitions at distances to 582 yards. The big 33 puts a big hurt on them. With this being said, am I completely satisfied with either of these bullets? No, the 250 gr partition sheds too much of it's front, leaving only the shank, and the accubond also sheds too much of it's front for my liking. So if I could make the bullets behave the way I want, I guess I would have a swift a frame and a swift scirraco. Does that mean they would kill better? Not necessarily, but until tried, I won't know. For now, I am going to try some tipped tripple shocks and look for the outcome in the next several weeks.

 

[elkaholic]

I have killed in excess of twenty five bull elk with a 6.5-06 A.I. most of which dropped where they stood. The farthest that I remember one moving was approx. 40 yds. Ranges were from 200 to 600 yds. (90% of them were shot with 140 nosler partitions and the rest with 140 Hornady interlocks.......Rich

 

[Troutslayer]

I've never killed an elk but it makes me wonder how long one could run after taking a double lung hit from a broadhead.

About 2 weeks, give or take.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

About 2 weeks, give or take.

It takes them about 30 sec to bleed out, give or take. Depending on how hard they run after the shot depends on the distance they will cover. A double lung hit with a sharp broad head is a guaranteed quick kill. If it is a high lung hit, it happens quicker because they don't have to bleed out to die. They drown before completely bled out. The hemorrhage of a broadhead is generally quicker than the shock damage of a bullet. If the shock of the bullet impact gets to the nervous system then it gives the illusion of a quicker kill. Shot placement on elk with archery equipment is imperative. You can not encounter bone, other than ribs on elk and expect good results. you need broadside, leading leg forward, or quartering away shots to expect good results on elk. They are too big to expect deer type results with archery equipment. Use heavy heavy arrow/broadhead combo, in order to get the penetration needed. 300fps plus lightweight arrows are NOT the way to go. Keep your arrow/broadhead combined weight close to 500grains or more, with 10% or more front of center.

Sorry for the hijack,

Steve

 

[squirrelduster]

Sounds like the issue is not under penetration but lack of expansion. I would think a accubond, or the like, in this particular situation would not have expanded as well and caused as much damage as the berger.

I killed a lot of animals with a 168 berger and nothing that made it more than 30yds. i.e. hog @770, white tails from 100-500yds, etc.


So this elk was alive long enough to ride over to him after both lungs had a hole in them? I've never killed an elk but it makes me wonder how long one could run after taking a double lung hit from a broadhead.

54 minutes standing after trotting 100 yards.

 

[drenge]

I've had great experience with the 168 bergers out of a 7 rm. I shot 2 deer and an elk this year all of which were shot high shoulder and dropped in their tracks. The elk was 478 yards; first deer was 105 yards; second deer 597 yards. The deer shot at 597 dropped quicker than the deer I shot at 105 yards because of shot placement.

See pics below:

1st WY Deer

2nd UT Deer

UT Shot Placement

UT Shot View from spot of deer

UT Elk

UT Elk Shot View from spot of shot (red circle is where the elk was located)

Notice the red circles to indicate where the shot was taken or where the animal stood.
168 Bergers at 2856 fps all did the job superbly.