bear hunters undergunned ?

Discussion in 'Bear Hunting' started by 460or338, May 22, 2010.

  1. 460or338

    460or338 Well-Known Member

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    Watching a thing about bear attachs on tv .90% of the time looks like you get a small timeframe to get atleast one shot off.1 instant a guy woke up in his tent and seen a bear shadow then about few mins later it attached him.And other cases were people with bows get 1 shot off etc .


    Now here's my question.

    With the 460 weatherby if i got 1 shot off 500 grain fmj.What do you think my odds of killing him right there would be?.Just think if the people on this show hand a 460 wby and they got 1 shot off do ya'll think the bear would have gotten any closer to attack them ?
     
  2. 460or338

    460or338 Well-Known Member

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  3. Depends on where you hit him. A decent hit and it's lights out for the bear.
     
  4. Southpaw

    Southpaw Well-Known Member

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    + 1 on Miller Outdoors.

    Shoot him in the foot with that thing you might find a whole new level of religion. LOL
     
  5. theodore

    theodore Well-Known Member

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    +2 lol
     
  6. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    +3!
    I bear hunt ALOT. Im talkin black bears tho. I feel that if you have confidence in your firearm, and are fully confident that you can put rounds on target (where they count) in crunch time it doesnt matter what caliber (WITHIN REASON FOR THE CRITTER) Im not suggesting that Id feel comfy shootin Griz with a 243. Could I? Yes. At a reasonable range under the right circumstances. But if anything went wrong..........., I would NOT want that cartrige on a full on charge/attack. If I were hunting Griz, Id take my 300wby or 338wm because of the game I was hunting. Im fully confident with both rifles with the right bullets. Do I need a 460wby? No. Would it work? Yes, of course..........IF I could put rounds on target in crunch time. IMO your best off shooting whatever your most comfortable and accurate with WITHIN REASON FOR THE GAME HUNTED. If you can handle a smaller 300 better, quicker, and more accurately than a 460wby why not take the 300?
    Theres always the flip side of the coin that says when a bear is commin you would still feel undergunned even with a Howitzer. But Ill always take what Im most comfy, confident, and accurate with within reason, because shot placement is key.
     
  7. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    For the large adult boars - talking inland grizzlies or coastal brown bears - I'd like to have a 338 Win Mag, or that .338 caliber - or larger - in a case capacity that large or larger.

    For a large black bear, I think much less would get the job done.

    I've seen the equivalent of the 338 RUM and 338 Edge in action on large brown bear and with any good hit to the solarplexes, the results are fairly immediate. They overwhelm the bear's physiology and ability to bring on much of a fight. I've also seen the 7mm Rem Mags and from my observations, there was a big difference between these two calibers/cartridges. You might want to 'brain' the charging bear with the 7mm, because I'm not sure a chest shot would stop them in time.

    If I were forced to confront these same bears on their food cache and knew I would elicite a fight-to-the death charge in their effort to either protect their food or, heaven forbid, their cubs, I'd take a 460 Weatherby if I had the option. But not with a Full Metal Jacket. Something like a Barnes TXS. The bigger and badder the better, provided I could still shoot it as effectively as a less powerful weapon.

    A lot of guides in Alaska carry 338 and 375 caliber cartridges for stopping brown bears. Some go with the 458 Win Mag or equivalent. I've never heard too much in the way of the .460 Wthby Mags as guide guns. But with the right bullet and equivalent quality hits, I have no doubt but what they would be the more effective bear stopper.
     
  8. As an aside - if I were worried about an up close bear situation I'd first reach for my 12 ga. 20" barrel home defense slug gun. That little pump action is faster than any of my rifles and 8 rounds is a nice feeling when you fear for your life. There's something about a slug from short range that just hits sooo hard - stopping a bear just as fast as the .460.
     
  9. theodore

    theodore Well-Known Member

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    I have read that the #1 weapon selection that fish and game use on brown bear is a 12 gauge shotgun with ultra heavy knockout medication pills.
     
  10. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    +1 w/winmag and phorwath. IMHO I'd want a minimum 338wm. Having said that shot placement is key, a larger more powerful cartridge isn't a good substitute for a poor shot...the kind that just pisses em off.
     
  11. 460or338

    460or338 Well-Known Member

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    I meant like a front or side or even head shot .what would 8,000 ft lbs of energy do to a big griuzzly?.Also thast 1600 lb bear they shot with the all different rifles 45-70's 375's etc. what would just a few or single 460 heavy round do placed right ?
     
  12. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. A 12-gauge pump with Brenneke slugs is a proven bear stopper for the in-your-face confrontations. There's something to be said for quick follow-up shots, and I would be pretty darn comfortable with an 18 to 20-inch long barrel on a reliable pump action, with 4 or more additional rounds in the magazine.

    So far I've been fortunate and have not gotten between a mother bear and her cubs. Unlike our criminal justice system, there is no presumption of innocence by most mother bears. Their justice system may result in the punishment of a few innocent intruders, but by and large, their inherent presumption of guilt is more often merited than not in the wilds of Alaska.

    A nightmare situation would be to stumble upon some cute itsy bitsy brown/grizzly bear cubs without knowing where mama is. My firearm would be brought to bear and I'd probably even have the safety off while backing away from that scenario. I've observed them enough from a distance to know that mother is never far away. And I couldn't think of a better way to threaten her, and piss her off.
     
  13. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Head shots are instant death if the bullet penetrates the skull and damages the brain. Like flipping a light switch on the wall. Same with an elephant if you've ever seen any brain shot elephant video.

    A good solid hit to the solar plexus with a quality bullet out of a .460 Weatherby would decommission 95% of bruins. Maybe not be instant death, but they would not be long for this world. Once their adrenaline is pumping, they are more difficult to stop. In my observation, this is also true with most other large game animals. If you hit a bear solid while he's unaware of your presence and the adrenaline is not cruising through the veins & arteries, they do seem to be disabled more readily than when they're scared to death. However, I have stopped even a large adrenaline-charged boar brown bear with a .338 Imperial Mag and a 225 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with simply a broadside shot through the ribs - just behind the front shoulders. Distance was a comfortable 125 yds. The bear was already wounded and running on high octane blood. He never recovered to pose any threat after that hit.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  14. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    The big problemb with a head/brain shot on an angry bear is that thier skull is very tapered, like a pigs skull. And actually quite hard. If the bears head were down and it was a bow legged ''bluff charge'' the skull would be easily pennetrated. When a bear is pissed and its commin in to do damage to a supposed threat it usually has its head tipped back and ears pinned and pearly whites showin. This puts the skull at an angle much harder to penetrate. You run the risk of a glancing blow. Much simmilar to the practicality of a helmet. Direct hits penetrate easily, but bullets on an angle tend to glance off. (no bear skulls arent as tough as helmets) but you get the idea. Its all about shot placement, and you may only get 1 shot.
    Yes a brain shot would equal lights out. But its a small moving target on an angle. It definately would not be my first choice. If youve ever gutted/skinned a bear youll notice a very scary resemblance to a human anatomy. If I had that much frontal mass heading my way Id launch bullets into center mass under the bottom jaw as close to where I figured the heart was located. Not too low, not too high. If its head were down Id entertain the thought of a brain shot I suppose. I guess it would depend on the senario. But wichever shot presented itself quickest would work.
    Having never hunted Brownies myself, Id lean toward taking any advise Phorwath has to give. He lives and plays in Alaska, and has dealt with big brown bears.