Barrel won't shoot, replace? other options?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by cdherman, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. cdherman

    cdherman Well-Known Member

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    I am close to giving up on a 25-06 700BDL that I have. I am a reasonably proficient handloader and get sub MOA groups with most of my guns. But not this one.

    In spite of bedding the stock, floating the barrel, and trying seemingly every powder and bullet combo out there, still no luck. I've tried neck sizing, turning the necks even, varying the COAL to give varying ammounts of lead to the lands. All to no avail.

    Premium factory ammo shoots about 2.5" groups. My best handloads come in at about 1".

    Now, you might say to be satisfied with that -- but shots in western Kansas are often 400 yards or more. And I'm a perfectionist.....

    I cannot get rid of the gun -- it is my first rifle -- my Dad bought it for me when I was 15, about 1975. Its got decent wood, though the checkering is kind of that cheezy machine cut 70's stuff. Was Remington putting out some duds in those years??

    It should not be shot out yet (and besides, it NEVER shot well). I might have not cleaned it correctly as a kid -- might have even cleaned it from the muzzle a few times. The bore looks fine, though I don't have a bore scope....

    I am close to rebarreling to 6.5-06, with a premium barrel and a couple more inches to boot.

    But anyone have any other wild last ditch ideas before the barrel gets replaced?

    Bore lapping -- I have heard of this but have never tried it personally?

    Recrown the muzzel?

    Perhaps I should have a good smith look in the bore one more time with a scope?

    You opinions are valued -- thanks.....
     
  2. Fitch

    Fitch Well-Known Member

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    The good "smith" with a borescope is a good plan. He can examine the chamber, crown, and everything inbetween.

    I realize you said you bedded it. Does it pass the test with a dial indicator?

    Getting a rifle to shoot under an inch usually takes a combination of things starting with a pretty good barrel, action that is reasonably true, bolt that fits, stress free bedding job, well tuned ammo, and a capable shooter. In other words, a rifle that reliably shoots into an inch group has very little wrong with it to begin with so improvements are made by approaching perfection in the above categories.

    Based on your description, I'd start by getting a diagnosis from a good smith with a borescope.

    Fitch
     

  3. MTBULLET

    MTBULLET Well-Known Member

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    just some suggestions,

    1. clean bbl.
    2. use a GOOD copper remover, mt. extreme, sweet's etc.
    3. check action screw tension
    4. check bedding to make sure it still is in good condition
    5. re-crown
     
  4. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I recently re-crowned a couple factory barrels that weren't shooting to bad but I needed some gunsmithing practice, turns out it cut the groups by half in the longer ranges and the 100yrd groups were still small but more consistate.

    I also found that it's easy to bed a rifle and introduce more stress than it had before, third time is a charm and I got a perfect stress free bedding job.

    A competent smith should be able to check all this out and give you a recomendation, rather than pulling your hair out. :D
     
  5. ol mike

    ol mike Well-Known Member

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    I have a 25-06 rem 700 bdl that i bought in '79 or '80 shoots like a champ -always has.
    Have a 22-250 rem 700 that shoots like your 25-06 -STOP fighting with it -wasteing time and supplies -order a custom barrel -have it blueprinted and bedded by a well known smith and be done.
    i fought my raunchy 22-250 for years -bedding -crown -lapped the lugs -different scopes -rings etc. all to no avail -STOP fighting with it !
    Micky Coleman blueprinted it and screwed on a Douglas XX stainless barrel -shot spectacular immediately !
    Load developement took a couple of hours -last time i checked the gun/load it shot a 3" group at 453yds in decent conditions .

    The 6.5x06 will really let you stretch the legs of the 06 case -140 amax and you'll have a 600-700yd deer rifle ready to rock.

    Get the old barrel back from the your gunsmith -cut it into 1-2 inch sections -use them when catfishing ..
     
  6. Aldon

    Aldon Well-Known Member

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    If My father had bought the rife for me, I would want it to be perfect.

    I would order a custom barrel just the way you would like it.

    In the perfect caliber and length, have it accurized & Blueprinted by a good gunsmith. Bedding redone as necessary.

    If the stock is not what you would ideally like, now is t he time to change it.

    Have something engraved on it denoting it as family heirloom.

    Then enjoy it until you pass it on.

    I had a Sendero that shot like yours. I spent enormous time and energy trying to get it to shoot.

    I picked up a 6.5 Rock Creek barrel and it is at smith. Pick it up in the next coupel of weeks.
     
  7. Firecat

    Firecat Well-Known Member

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    If money is an issue I would do two things before I went to the expense of a new barrel.

    # 1. Recrown the barrel. $30.00 roughly

    # 2. Try Tubb's Final Finish $30.00

    If this works then great. If not, then you did everything possible before altering it from its original state.

    I don't know about you, but my mom and dad bought me a Ruger 7mm Rem Mag for Christmas when I was 16. That gun will never be changed from original except for a new trigger. I guess I am just kind of funny that way.
     
  8. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Maybe sell it and have one built right from the start. This is what I do but pick the right smith.
     
  9. cdherman

    cdherman Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the quick relies.

    You know -- the last couple posts kind of helped me solidify what I have been feeling in my gut lately.

    -- I am going to keep this gun forever.
    -- Why not have it exactly like I want?
    -- I don't do varmits with it (actually I have a RR .223 that shoots 1/2" groups already)
    -- 6.5-06 is a better long range deer gun by far than the 25-06
    -- Money is not really a problem :)


    I could futz around with lots of little stuff and maybe get it a little better -- but its still a 25-06 in the end. It will remain finniky forever. As it stands now, it requires handloads for even decent accuracy.

    I think I should rebarrel it.

    I understand the post about not wanting to alter a gun that my Dad gave me. I felt that way a little as well. But having it sitting in the gun chest gathering dust because it doesn't shoot well doesn't exactly honor my Dad either. I've not hunted with this gun for the last couple years after I wounded and lost a buck at 300 yards that was at least partly the gun's fault. (Partly mine too for sure) In any case, I lost confidence in it......

    I think I will start researching barrels and try and find a good local smith....
     
  10. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I know my dad wouldn't want me to keep working over a turd just because it has the barrel it came with, he would want me to turn it into a shooter and wear a couple more barrels of it. Shooting a gun that shoots good and you like to shoot, IMO it'll mean more to you if it is the gun you reach for when you want your favorite shooter!
     
  11. Fitch

    Fitch Well-Known Member

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    I hear that. I ended up with my Dad's 1953 Winchester Model 70 .30-06. It's a standard action in a supergrade stock. It didn't shoot worth beans. I wrestled with the thing for a while, then decided I'd do what it takes to make it shoot. So far I've bedded it, put a recoil pad on it, and firelapped the barrel. The bedding helped a lot. The firelapping didn't help accuracy at all, may have made it worse in fact and it took 0.040" out of the throat, but it cleans up faster, for what that's worth, which isn't much. Firelapping it was a mistake. Bedding and recoil pad wasn't.

    I just ordered a new .30 caliber 1:10 twist sporter weight barrel blank and will be giving it a new barrel this winter during shop season.

    Fitch
     
  12. ewallace

    ewallace Well-Known Member

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    I would get a new barrel and have the action trued, bed the action if it is not done and enjoy the rifle your dad gave you with a face lift
     
  13. knc1105

    knc1105 Well-Known Member

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    I fire-lap everything, IT WILL FIX IT !!!!! I have AK's and Mini-14's that shot sub MOA. I have fire-lapped well over a hundred firearms from .22 match pistols and rifles, AK'S , Mini's, more bolt guns than I can take pictures of and a 50 BMG. They don't make a kit for it so I sent them 50 BMG and 6.8 SPC bullets for two new rifles and they coated mine and sent them back. www.superiorshootingsystems.com or 806-323-9488 ask for Tyler, he is way up the food chain and can help you. When ever I buy a firearm if I don't have the bullets on the shelf, I order them so it comes in when the firearm arrives. I have had a Mini-14 go from 8 MOA to 3/4 MOA. I had four Weatherbys go from 4-MOA to sub-MOA. Too many experiences to list. I'll try and post some pics as soon as I can. ------THE HOT TIP IS-----Follow the directions on the box of Final Finish------THEN clean and shoot 5-TMS ( Throat Maintenence Service ) The TMS after the Final Finish will usually take it from 3/4 MOA to a 1/4 MOA on a quality rifle. If you have a Custom Match Grade Hand lapped barrel, Tyler will tell you to fire 5-7 TMS without the Final Finish. On my Custom 28" Lilja 338 RUM, I fired the Final Finish and then TMS. It might have been overkill but it shoots GREAT.------WARNING----WARNING---- if you are going to let a gunsmith talk you into re-crowning, DO IT BEFORE YOU FIRELAP. When you firelap you will cure the crown ( throat and crown is where most accuracy is lost ) but if you re-crown after you firelap you will have to start over, you've screwed it up. I have tons of common bolt guns that have had a Timney trigger, free floated stock barrel that out shoot the zillion dollar guns, it drives my buddies with custom guns CRAZY.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  14. cdherman

    cdherman Well-Known Member

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    I tried Tubbs before on a different gun. Did not help at all. I guess some folks have all the luck.

    I have a hard time beleiving that a few abrasive coated bullets will change what several hunded rounds have already done to my bore.

    I have came to the conclusion that I also don't really like 25-06 as a concept for me....

    25-06 was one of those hot varmint guns that could double as a deer rifle. Well, I have better varmint guns, and for long range deer, the various 6.5mm offerings serve me better I think.

    Lets face it -- 400-500 yard shots with a .25 caliber projectile are questionable -- even if I could get the accuracy I need.

    I have decided to rebarrel, true the receiver etc. I hope to get a fine looking, nostalgia sort of gun that I can work up a very accurate load with a minimum of effort and shoot it for my deer hunting for the next 30 years. With the number of rounds that I shoot at deer, even a throat burner like 6.5-06 or 6.5-284 should last for decades.

    Amortized over time, its worth the money so that I can stop fighting with the .25