Barrel Length and Twist

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by callingthewild, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. callingthewild

    callingthewild Well-Known Member

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    Looking at a 25-06 Barrel, how much barrel and twist.
    I use to know much of this, but been away from it for some time.
    I want to have the ability to shot very long distance.
    Having said that what is the best twist per inch of barrel length.

    I'm looking at ether a 28, or 30 inch barrel, my first thought is a 1-10 twist, But again, I've been away from this for too long of a period to know what todays standards have come up to.
    CTW gun)
     
  2. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Just going off my .257 Wby (which is also a 1/4 bore)....But, I'd say a 26" Sendero contour with a 1:10 twist should get you there shooting the heavies like the Berger 115 VLD's.

    But I couldn't see where a 28" could hurt...
     

  3. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    The .25 cal is very limited in high BC LR bullet selection. A 10 twist will work for the vast majority of bullets available. That said, there are some bullet makers like Cutting Edge and Matrix that make longer, higher BC bullets for LR shooting. Neither CE or Matrix advertise the longer VLDs or ULDs. You'll have to call them if you're interested and see what they have and what twist is required and how much they are. Berger may come out with a hybrid, who knows? Otherwise the 10 twist will work for all the other bullets.

    Barrel length, is a completely personal choice. Longer barrels will increase velocity but they are also more susceptibleto harmonics (whip) which makes them more finicky to develop accurate loads for. The longer the barrel I use, the heavier I make it.

    If I built a 25-06, I would build it with a 26" light varmint contour so i could use it as a field carry rifle for varminting, deer and antelope hunting, etc.

    In my Sendero 25-06 with 26" barrel, I was getting 3400 fps with RL17 pushing 115 gr CT's. So velocity was more than adequate.
     
  4. callingthewild

    callingthewild Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Montanarifleman, that's some great information.
    I'll look into the Sendero (Is that the name of the Barrel, or the make of the gun?) Barrel, along with some others.
    CTW gun)
     
  5. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Sendero is/was a sub-model of the model 700 rifle that Remington makes, that was designed for long range shooting over large sendero fields, which can be hundreds or thousands of yards across.

    The barrel has a unique contour to it, and nearly all barrel manufacturers have the specs and offer barrels in this unique contour that is quite popular.

    After owning a Sendero, and 2 Remingtons with M24/Mil contour barrels, I have come to like those 2 contours as my favorites, and my barrel contour of choice for my custom rifles.
     
  6. RT2506

    RT2506 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Remington makes the Sendero in 25-06 any more. But I have a rifle that I had built before Remington even started making the Sendero. It is a 25-06 and has a Remington action with a Shilen #6 stainless barrel 26" long with a 10 twist and it will do anything in the game field you want to do. The 26" barrel will get about all you can get out of the powder capacity of the case. If you want more velocity from a 25 cal. go to the 257 Weatherby. It all depends on what you want to do with your rifle. If it is deer size game hunting you need to take into account down range bullet performance and velocity drop off. I am a died in the wool 25-06 shooter but a man has to know his and his rifles limitations. Even though I have put shots on deer between 500 and 600 yards using 117 gr Sierra bullets leaving the muzzle @ 3100 fps I now limit my shots to 500 yards because beyond 550 yards velocity has dropped off below what I want for really good bullet performance. If I am going to hunt in a bean field where I expect to have a shot longer than 500 yards I take my 264 Win mag.
    If you are long range varminting that is a different ball game. The 25-06 has a lot on the average 6mms. You can stretch the yardage out and it is quite a bit better in the wind.
    If you are going to be target shooting for long range forget the 25-06 and go with something in the .264 like the 6.5-284 because there are many more better target bullets for the 6.5 and those long bullets just fly really well.
     
  7. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Or he could jump up to a .280 Ackley Improved for 1,000 yard deer hunting capabilities.
     
  8. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    As Mudrunner mentioned, a Sendero is a sub model of the Remington 700 and it has a fairly heavy barrel. The Sendero contour is very popular among LR shooters because it's heavy and easier to develop accurate loads for and not affected as much from the heat of firing as a lighter sporter. Yet it's not so heavy that it can't be carried. My Senderos fully decked out with NF scope and bi pod weighed about 12 lbs.

    I mentioned using a light varmint barrel but what I really meant was a light varmint sporter barrel as per Broughton's specs. The Sendero has .830 muzzle diameter whereas the light varmint sporter has a .700 diameter. Most factory sporter barrels are about .600 - .630. Broughton's heavy varmint sporter is close to the Sendero contour but a slightly straighter contour than the Sendero. Lilja's #7 is also close to the Sendero. The Remington Senderos are fluted barrels and non-fluted barrels will be a little stiffer than flutted barrels in the same contour. One thing nice about the the light varmint sporter is that it will fit into a standard sporter stock which is slightly lighter and less bulky than a varmint or tactical stock. I'm having a 6x284 built with that contour (non-fluted) and putting it in a B&C Medalist. If I did a 25-06, I would do the same. A little compromise in stiffness to make it a little more carryable and handy. For larger cartridges I would go with heavier barrels.

    I agree that you're probably not going going to gain much velocity in a longer than 26" barrel with the 25-06.
     
  9. callingthewild

    callingthewild Well-Known Member

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    All good stuff, and much appreciated.
    I bought this 25-06 Savage Axis because of the price tag $309.00 + Tax
    I'm putting a Mueller4x16x50 Tactical Scope on it.
    But I'm looking to see if I can put a longer barrel on it soon.
    CTW gun)
     
  10. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Axis has a standard sporter stock. If true, it won't accept anything heavier than something similar to a Broughton light varmint sporter unless you want to replace the stock.
     
  11. callingthewild

    callingthewild Well-Known Member

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    Replacing the sock, ie... New build stock is fine by me.
    If I can make this a better gun in the sence of putting a longer,heavier Barrel on it, than I'll build a stock for it.
    One of the things I like to do (Wood Working).
    I just need to find out how the Barrel attaches to the receiver on this Gun, to know that I can have a barrel made.

    I know in the long run that I'll have all the money into it, as if I bought a higher dollar gun in the first place.
    But this gives me a start to deer hunt here in Michigan again this year, then work throughout the winter to make it what I want to end up with.

    CTW gun)
    I thank you all for your thought, knowing I don't need anything longer than a 26' Barrel narrows that down for me,
     
  12. RT2506

    RT2506 Well-Known Member

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    Before you do anything I would work up a good load for your rifle as it is. I would use a good 115 to 117 gr bullet. The 115 Nosler ballistic tip and the 117 Sierra either the Pro hunter flat base or the Game King BT bullets are great on deer. Work up to these loads.
    Try with either bullet 52 grs H-4831 or the SC version with a CCI-BR2 primer in a Remington case. Or 49 grs IMR Or Accurate 4350 with a CCI 250 primer and a Remington case. One of these loads should shoot lights out in your rifle. Sight in 3 inches high at 100 yards and hold in the center of a front shoulder from point blank out to 350 yards. You will not be above or below line of sight over 3 1/2 inches which is in the kill zone of the average deer. Don't worry too much about really long range. It has been in my 30+ years of bean field shooting of deer that most shots are within 300 yards and most under 100 yards. Learn where to put your stands to put you within 300 yards of were the deer mostly travel and feed. Even if you are getting 100 fps or so less velocity with your 22" barrel I have see a whole lot of deer killed with the 257 Roberts which will push a 117 gr bullet average 2800 fps out to 300 yards or so and the deer did not know the difference. You will be amazed at how quickly a deer hits the ground dead with the 25 calibers. There is something about the 25s that just kill deer in their tracks and I have shot them with about everything between a 22lr and a 45-70.
     
  13. callingthewild

    callingthewild Well-Known Member

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    Thanks TR2506, this year I'm going to leave it where it's at with the set up I have, as I will use it mainly for Deer Hunting, some Coyotes, but beyond this season, I think I'll have a longer barrel and build a new stock, as I'm really wanting to play in the Long Range Coyote shooting.

    CTW gun)