Balllistics Program Question

[Darryl Cassel]

S1

This COULD be the way it happened right NOW since I have a 19 yr old Grandson.


Your Grandson----Grandpa Sam, I shot "at" my deer at 1500 yds today and just as I pulled the trigger, a gust of wind entered and I hit the deer high in the left rear leg as the bullet was in flight. The deer ran around the other side of the mountain and I was unable to find any blood to track when I went over to where I hit it. It was dangling his leg and I know I hit it. I'm so sorry I tried the 1 shot kill method at that range. You really **** me off Grandpa.

My Grandson---Grandpa Darryl, I got my deer at 1500 yds today. I saw this buck run from the other side of the mountain that had been hit in the left rear leg. I thought I heard a faint shot shortly before I saw this buck run onto the side of the mountain I was glassing. It laid down and I ranged him at 1500 yds in his bed. I took the spotter shot 100 yds away from the buck so it wouldn't scare him, made my scope adjustments, as you taught me to do, and killed the buck in his bed with the next shot.
Thank you Grandpa for teaching me the spotter shot first method of hunting game. Your my favorite Grandpa.

Later
Darryl GrandPa

PS---I'm so proud of my Grandson. Especially when he told me how that bedded buck rolled out of his bed after he got hit.

He even gave a lot of praise to his spotter (hunting friend) who was with him.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]

 

[Guest]

DC

If you think the wind can't switch long after you have fired your last spotter,

or switch with a bullet tht has a 1.7 second flight time,

There is no helping you, and what you do dont understand about flight time and wind will sooner or later show you that your system is just as capable of wounding animals.

The Army has spent millions trying to integrate doppler into a sniper scope, and they can collect almost realtime all the necessary wind data to break an excellent shot, Much better than you can adjust with your big eyes.

The reality exists that with a BALLISTIC projectile, past 1,000 yards, the flight time issue alone allows the WIND TO CHANGE AFTER THE BULLET CAN NO LONGER BE REDIRECTED.

Knowing full well the flight times of what you are shooting at 2,000, only a fool would claim there is not a chance of missing or wounding an animal with any system that has significant flight time and wind deflection qualities.

 

[Guest]

DC

We like to analyze hit proficiency for a given target size and condition scenario, because when the target size or conditions change, there is such a strong correlation to the proficiency numbers going up or down.

I would bet there are some wind conditions that neither system will work well in. I would find some wind reading ability necessary, if for no other reason than to recognize the fact that in front of us, at this moment in time, these conditions are too difficult or too risky to resolve.

I do not miss that often, not because I am a great shooter, but because I choose not to shoot, or choose to manuever before shooting, or wait until I have a condition that can be reliably read. Or as I have done on Bulls I really want, Move in closer.

I have said from the beginning that no matter how good you are, your ability to make reliable hits, and that range will vary greatly depending on the wind conditions and the size of your target. Each scenario presents a target of a different size and distance under vastly different wind conditions. So I will say again it is up to the shooter to decide the range an ethical or proficient shot can be taken at, based on his own skills and abilities. I would encourage every shooter to continue to add to their wind reading skills no matter what range you shoot at, or what system you use.

 

[Darryl Cassel]

I agree 100%

Later
DC

 

[Blaine Fields]

Michael E.,
I'm shooting a 178gr. A-Max, .308 Win. Barrel length is 25.5 in.

Blaine

 

[Michael Eichele]

Blaine,

I have had similar problems before shooting my 308. It sounds like some of the posts may have solved your problem, but what I found was that in a 308 with a barrel length of 24-26" B.C.'s can be increased. For instance I had a 155 grain palma load and was hitting high at 1000 yards, no matter what the air desity, they were always flatter than they should have been. The issue was that the B.C. of that bullet was increased to .500-.505. I dont know however if that would happen to the 178 A-Max. I have only experianced that with the 150-155 in a 308 Win. But when I recalculated for .500 everything was perfect.

 

[ewallace]

S1 and Darrel
I agree with both of your techniques. There is a time and place for both a 1 shot and a spotter shot or shots if needed what ever it takes. As hunters we have to make the right decision in the field, take into consideration target size, distance, wind, terrain, weather, lighting and our ability and experience in these conditions.

Crow Mag

 

[Darryl Cassel]

S1

I never said that the spotter shot method was 100% everytime. I do however, believe it is more reliable then your way at really xtreme range and I'm not talking about inside of 1000 yds.
That statement does not make me right and you wrong and vise-versa.

There is the possibility of a miss or wounding in ANY system, but the possibilty is cut down quite a bit using the spotter system at extreme range. I don't mean just 1000 yds. I am talking of ranges past 1000 and on out to 2000 or a bit further. I have had success past 2000 yds and want to take it to 3000 since my buddie has done it to 2890 yds. He used the spotter system.

As you said to Boyd, I/we don't have to run up a mountain and be out of breath and try to make a shot either. I won't put myself in that position because I don't have to.
Some do however if in the military and I fully understand that mentality.

It seems in your way, your taking a lot for granted by "looking" at wind conditons if you don't have wind indicators the entire length of the range your shooting. This takes Years to master by the BEST. If you can do this on a consistant basis, then you are **** good.

You MUST admit, a spotter shot will "help" eleminate some of the problems encountered by the wind and other factors too, if a person is trying to use the one shot method in excess of 1000, 1250, 1500 and out to 2000 yards. If you don't then we should not be talking about this subject to each other at all.

I was kiding around about the Grandson thing and you semed to take that wrong? It was all in fun.

Yes, the wind can change very rapidly however, I feel the spotter system is "one" of the best, if not "the" best way, to track a bullet to the target by use of hunting friend using a set of Bigeyes.

We (you and I) are both after the same result. That is to get the bullet from Point A to point B at extreme range and as accurate as possible. I will always feel that the spotter shot first for the "Sportsman" is the best way to go. Not for the Military sniper though.
In your line of work, I see your point as per the 1 shot senerio.

We can just agree to disagree and go about our shooting procedures we have established over the years. It seems it has been successful for both.

If you or anyone can show us a better way then has been successful for "me" and my LR hunting and shooting friends in the past, I'm/we are all ears.
I expect the same consideration from you also.

No shooting system is 100% everytime.
Just too many obsticles past 1000 yds

Have a good one

DC

PS---My Grandson wants to go shooting and needs a spotter, bye.