Discussion in 'Product Reviews - Discussion' started by ADMIN, Oct 20, 2010.

Ballistic Edge Triple Torch Model 350 Annealer Review

  1. ADMIN

    ADMIN Administrator

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    This is a thread for discussion of the article, Ballistic Edge Triple Torch Model 350 Annealer Review , By Jerry Teo. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.
     
  2. timmyatnop

    timmyatnop Well-Known Member

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    Wow that looks like a great piece of equipment,I think iam gona have to invest in one when i get my other want's paid for. Jerry i read that you shoot a 300 rum. I purchased one last year and 200 rounds later have it shooting a good group, but my es is 33 fps and thats after i through out a shot that was 100 fps different then the other nine shots, Ive annealed all the brass measured powder so they were all 95 grs. rotumbo. I guess the thing i havent done the best is sort my brass by weight,mabey thats my problim,Oh one other thing i purchased a barret bors system and put in my bc off my box of burger bullets and its dead on at 100 y,but when i have my bors turned to 600 yard my group is a foot high and a couple of inches to the right,Sorry if ive got off the subject of annealing but thought you might have some expert advice for me ,I use rcbs neck dies mabey a collet die would work better. I read your artices on brass and bullet prep and am trying to fallow them closely,oh yea i use rem brass,fed 215 primers. Iam just trying to perfect this gun so that its the only one i use.Any advice would be great .
     

  3. ridge rider

    ridge rider Well-Known Member

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    I bought this very same machine from Jerry a few months ago and have annealed over 500 cases in 30-378 and 338-378. I am very impressed with its performance and results.
    My reason for buying this machine over another competitor's excellent machine was for its simplicity.
    Whilst the other machine without doubt is an excellent product this one has fulfilled all of my needs and expectations superbly.
    Great machine and yes.....my ES have dropped from around 70fps to under 20 fps for both cartridges along with other careful case preparation and loading techniques.
     
  4. Justin2111

    Justin2111 Well-Known Member

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    So how much is this?
     
  5. nheninge

    nheninge Well-Known Member

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    By the authors own admission an annealer should insulate the case web from increased temp. Not sure how this machine does this compared to say the Ken Light model that uses a thick plate around each case and H2O in the center. Have temps been measured lower on the case to make sure the temp/time is not exceeded? Tempilaq melting around the neck is a great indicator of neck temp, but it does not indicate the temp of the rest of the case... Any crystallography studies for this design? Only asking because I am considering a purchase soon.
     
  6. ridge rider

    ridge rider Well-Known Member

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    The secret is to heat the case neck quickly as possible to its required temperature thus avoiding or minimising heat transfer to the case head region..
    To minimise heat transfer to the case head I also have my cases drop into a plastic container full of cold water placed under the drop out hole.
    I have annealed many of my cases this way, reloaded them and fired them off without any problems.
    So long as the case head does not reach temperatures that are too hot to handle the case at the case head you should have no worries if you drop them into cold water.
    As far as crystallography studies I cannot comment on that.
     
  7. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Big one is the actual weight of the powder charge. I have found that even in a RUM sized case, a variation of 0.2gr can have an affect on vertical stringing.

    I gave up tuning over a chronie years ago as the error in the average chronie is equal to or larger then the speeds we are trying to monitor.

    There is an article I have written about load tuning. The goal is to test at 200 to 300yds. By adjusting the powder charges in very small increments, you can dial out vertical in a well shooting rifle. The groups will look oval like a football on its side.

    The accuracy will still be within the norm you expect from the rifle but there will be little to no vertical AND that is what we need for LR success.

    Measure case volume after fireforming AND neck sizing. Forget about weighing the brass. There will be significant weight differences but the volume is likely spot on.

    Runout is another easy thing to check. Long VLD bullets do like being launched wonky. I strive for 2 thou.

    Match primers can help too.

    So test at further distances. Watch the rests and shooting set up you use to ensure they are stable and repeatable. A good high mag scope and a clear target will also be a great aid.

    As I mentioned in my article on scope set up. Don't trust what a ballistics program spits out or the assumption of BDC devices. Real world testing is the only way to know what your gear will do. Yes, there is error in every part of the optics/rifle system but as long as they are consistent and repeatable, we can adjust for it.

    Hopefully, the BORS product you have can be reprogrammed for your real world come ups. I have yet to find a combo that was bang on. A few clicks either way but never dead on. So I just tweak my drop chart and have at it.

    Good luck on getting your rifle dialed in. But remember that peak accuracy in a RUM is under 1000rds.

    Jerry
     
  8. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    This is part of the intial flame set up regardless of the annealer. By applying the heat precisely and for a 'short' period of time, the base of the case is not overheated.

    You will have the ability to test with tempilac to ensure it satisfies your needs when you purchase the unit :)

    Jerry
     
  9. BigSkyGP

    BigSkyGP Well-Known Member

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    I'm new to anealing brass. I work with steal and aliminum a lot, though. I know steal heated and quenched, dropped into water, will harden.

    I know brass is different. Does quenching in water make it softer?

    Instead of the temp wax or what ever. Would a digital infared laser thermometer be sufficient for determining brass neck temp? Then you could check whatever portion of the case you are concerned about.

    Digital thermometers are more available, now, and their prices have become more acceptible for most of us.
     
  10. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    sorry, not a metallugist but it would seem quenching doesn't cause brass to harden. once heated, it stays soft whether air or water cooled.

    The problem with an external thermometer is the flame used to heat the necks. you would simply be measuring the vastly hotter flame.

    The temp paint/sticks are a simple and elegant solution to monitoring these temps.

    Cost effective too.

    Jerry
     
  11. GTN

    GTN Well-Known Member

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    I air cool my brass after the heating process because like you say quenching hardens steel not sure about brass.

    I have used lots of the infared meters that are calibrated on a regular basis and from my experience they are not very accurate. Temp sticks are the way to go.