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<blockquote data-quote="bwaites" data-source="post: 161570" data-attributes="member: 8733"><p>Most surveys taken believe that deer populations are actually higher than they were at the time of the pilgrims. The belief is that we wiped out all their natural predators, so they have boomed. </p><p> </p><p>This would seem to be born out by the fact that there were something like 1.5 MILLION plus deer/car collisions in the United States last year! </p><p> </p><p>Buffalo populations are down, essentially because we hunted them to the brink of extinction. Elk populations are PROBABLY down from pre-Pilgrim times, but mostly because we pushed them off their native habitat, the open prairies of the US and Canada, and up into the mountains, because we wanted to farm the prairies. </p><p> </p><p>Both Buffalo and Elk populations were HUGE prior to OUR depredations, even with normal Wolf/Cougar/Coyote populations. </p><p> </p><p>Do wolves kill without need, sometimes, maybe. Some of the excess kills are simply young wolves practicing their killing skills, according to researchers.</p><p> </p><p>Do wolves kill livestock? You bet!! Four legged grass eaters are all the same to wolves; they taste good, and if they are easy to kill because they are slow or fenced in, all the better! We bred cows and sheep to be slow, by the way, so that we could keep track of them easier! </p><p> </p><p>Are the wolf populations wiping out the huntable elk and deer? </p><p> </p><p>Maybe they have had some impact, but before you lay all the blame on the wolves and other predators, look at ALL the factors that play a part. Water availability, snow fall, summer temperatures, winter temperatures, forest fires, human encroachment, etc. </p><p> </p><p>I've seen areas that had lots of deer for years suddenly be barren, only to find an area 20 miles away that had no deer suddenly have dozens. There are too many factors to blame it all on predator populations.</p><p> </p><p>It's sort of like global warming. Blaming ALL of global warming on fossil fuel consumption is poor science. There simply isn't enough data over a long enough period to draw the conclusion. Might it be playing a part? Of course! Should we be paying attention? Of course! But drawing conclusions after 2 decades in a system that is as complex and long lived as Earth's? Well that is just bad science.</p><p> </p><p>Predator impact on game animals is in the same place. Are they having an impact? Of course! But just how much impact is still up in the air! I live in Central Washington where we have watched Mule deer populations rise and fall and rise and fall, and we don't have ANY major predators anymore, unless you count coyotes. </p><p> </p><p>As a final example, I have lived in the same house for 9 years, inside of city limits, in a developed neighborhood, although one with large lots. In that time, prior to June of this year, we had had 2 encounters with skunks, both when our dog was off leash at night and found them. </p><p> </p><p>Since June, though, we have had 6 encounters, and I have trapped 4 skunks in a live trap. </p><p> </p><p>Why the sudden increase? Well, I think it is because a developer is putting in a new neighborhood blocks away and the skunks are being pushed out. Can I prove that? Nope! Maybe we've always had skunks in my yard and we just got lucky for all those years! </p><p> </p><p>Bill</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bwaites, post: 161570, member: 8733"] Most surveys taken believe that deer populations are actually higher than they were at the time of the pilgrims. The belief is that we wiped out all their natural predators, so they have boomed. This would seem to be born out by the fact that there were something like 1.5 MILLION plus deer/car collisions in the United States last year! Buffalo populations are down, essentially because we hunted them to the brink of extinction. Elk populations are PROBABLY down from pre-Pilgrim times, but mostly because we pushed them off their native habitat, the open prairies of the US and Canada, and up into the mountains, because we wanted to farm the prairies. Both Buffalo and Elk populations were HUGE prior to OUR depredations, even with normal Wolf/Cougar/Coyote populations. Do wolves kill without need, sometimes, maybe. Some of the excess kills are simply young wolves practicing their killing skills, according to researchers. Do wolves kill livestock? You bet!! Four legged grass eaters are all the same to wolves; they taste good, and if they are easy to kill because they are slow or fenced in, all the better! We bred cows and sheep to be slow, by the way, so that we could keep track of them easier! Are the wolf populations wiping out the huntable elk and deer? Maybe they have had some impact, but before you lay all the blame on the wolves and other predators, look at ALL the factors that play a part. Water availability, snow fall, summer temperatures, winter temperatures, forest fires, human encroachment, etc. I've seen areas that had lots of deer for years suddenly be barren, only to find an area 20 miles away that had no deer suddenly have dozens. There are too many factors to blame it all on predator populations. It's sort of like global warming. Blaming ALL of global warming on fossil fuel consumption is poor science. There simply isn't enough data over a long enough period to draw the conclusion. Might it be playing a part? Of course! Should we be paying attention? Of course! But drawing conclusions after 2 decades in a system that is as complex and long lived as Earth's? Well that is just bad science. Predator impact on game animals is in the same place. Are they having an impact? Of course! But just how much impact is still up in the air! I live in Central Washington where we have watched Mule deer populations rise and fall and rise and fall, and we don't have ANY major predators anymore, unless you count coyotes. As a final example, I have lived in the same house for 9 years, inside of city limits, in a developed neighborhood, although one with large lots. In that time, prior to June of this year, we had had 2 encounters with skunks, both when our dog was off leash at night and found them. Since June, though, we have had 6 encounters, and I have trapped 4 skunks in a live trap. Why the sudden increase? Well, I think it is because a developer is putting in a new neighborhood blocks away and the skunks are being pushed out. Can I prove that? Nope! Maybe we've always had skunks in my yard and we just got lucky for all those years! Bill [/QUOTE]
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